Did anyone watch Question Time last night? Wasn't it nice to see politicians being given a hard time and being told exactly what the public think of them, even Ming Campbell, for whom I used to have a lot of respect.
I was listening to Radio 5 this morning and various callers were citing how we should make our feelings known at the forthcoming elections. There were suggestions that we should not vote ( a la Norman Tebbitt) except that would worry me that extremist parties may gain advantage. Another suggestion was to vote but to spoil your ballot paper, as it will have to be counted and a huge number of spoiled ballot papers would send a very strong message to the politicians ( if they still need one, that is).
Another suggestion, was that at the next general election , not to vote for any standing MP, which would sweep away all the present incumbents of the House of Commons and give us an entirely new Parliament. This does appeal to me somewhat, apart from the problem of having 600+ inexperienced MPs.
I think we need to make this lot of discredited MPs understand just how we feel and if we are apathetic at the forthcoming elections, it may well be forgotten about in a few months and the snouts will be soon be back in the troughs in some shape or form.
Any thoughts anyone?
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MPs expenses scandal and forthcoming elections
Sex God
I totally agree Max, my problem is not with any one party but the political system in it's entirety. I'm not saying capitalism is wrong and communism is right, or vice versa, I just object to law makers making laws that serve only themselves.
I also find the public outcry, and this is being devils advocate, somewhat laughable. How many people if they were able to claim these expenses, legally (forget morally), would do so? The vast majority would happily get their employer to foot the bill for a new car, decorating the room or a new Plasma TV if they could, so while I can understand the outrage at the system, I am less understanding of the condemnation of MP's for using a system they have so expertly designed to be profitable and above all, legal, for them to do so. And the moralistic finger wagging is rather two-faced I feel, especially when the same businessman is slapping the latest three course meal on the "business expenses" tab.
It's rather like asylum seekers. Why shout at them and hurl abuse, when it is the system these nitwits in Parliament have come up with that has left it open to abuse?
So I agree, we do need a radical change only I am not happy voting for ANY party at the moment. Those thinking the Conservatives (who will win the next election) will suddenly make things fantastically better for everyone, are entirely deluded and probably have very short term memories from the period of the 1980's to mid 1990s which were amongst the toughest we have faced.
In an ideal world, I'd say the best way to protest a vote is to spoil your paper as these are counted and recorded and it would be an easily visible reflection of how angry people are, and how out of touch politics has become to the very people it is supposed to serve.
However if that was to be done then it would mean the likes of the BNP and god knows who else would have the potential to claim huge victories and that would be worse than electing a party.
I don't know what the answer is, but I cannot in good faith consider voting labour or conservative or liberal. I voted green at the last election, not because I am a tree hugging lefty, but because I refuse to vote for the big parties so obviously after serving their own interests before the publics.
As daft as it sounds, we need to take the 'politic' out of politics. We need to lose the blue, reds and oranges, the left and right wings. It is time politicians started serving us and our wants and needs as they are supposedly elected to do, rather than scoffing at the expense bowl from the public purse to pay for maintainance to their moat or swimming pool, or to promote their own parties agenda, which may be quite at odds with the majority view in the country. Politicians need to be judged on what they achieve locally, nationally and internationally, and not the colour of their tie and banner they rally behind. They need to be transparent, honest, independent and answerable. At the moment they are none of these things, in my humble opinion.
A government of the people, for the people with a radical overhaul of the entire political system. Which I know sounds rather Marxist and idealist and I'm not advocating taking a Guy Fawkes approach just yet, but I think it is the only way to bring back some kind of integrity to the whole political process. One party promoting its own agenda will never achieve that.
I would not trust any one political party as they serve their own needs first before that of you or I, regardless of who you voted for.
What the answer is, I don't know. And I don't know how I'm going to vote. The sad thing is after fighting so hard and long to get the right for the vote, we now find the desperate need for someone to actually vote for.
I also find the public outcry, and this is being devils advocate, somewhat laughable. How many people if they were able to claim these expenses, legally (forget morally), would do so? The vast majority would happily get their employer to foot the bill for a new car, decorating the room or a new Plasma TV if they could, so while I can understand the outrage at the system, I am less understanding of the condemnation of MP's for using a system they have so expertly designed to be profitable and above all, legal, for them to do so. And the moralistic finger wagging is rather two-faced I feel, especially when the same businessman is slapping the latest three course meal on the "business expenses" tab.
It's rather like asylum seekers. Why shout at them and hurl abuse, when it is the system these nitwits in Parliament have come up with that has left it open to abuse?
So I agree, we do need a radical change only I am not happy voting for ANY party at the moment. Those thinking the Conservatives (who will win the next election) will suddenly make things fantastically better for everyone, are entirely deluded and probably have very short term memories from the period of the 1980's to mid 1990s which were amongst the toughest we have faced.
In an ideal world, I'd say the best way to protest a vote is to spoil your paper as these are counted and recorded and it would be an easily visible reflection of how angry people are, and how out of touch politics has become to the very people it is supposed to serve.
However if that was to be done then it would mean the likes of the BNP and god knows who else would have the potential to claim huge victories and that would be worse than electing a party.
I don't know what the answer is, but I cannot in good faith consider voting labour or conservative or liberal. I voted green at the last election, not because I am a tree hugging lefty, but because I refuse to vote for the big parties so obviously after serving their own interests before the publics.
As daft as it sounds, we need to take the 'politic' out of politics. We need to lose the blue, reds and oranges, the left and right wings. It is time politicians started serving us and our wants and needs as they are supposedly elected to do, rather than scoffing at the expense bowl from the public purse to pay for maintainance to their moat or swimming pool, or to promote their own parties agenda, which may be quite at odds with the majority view in the country. Politicians need to be judged on what they achieve locally, nationally and internationally, and not the colour of their tie and banner they rally behind. They need to be transparent, honest, independent and answerable. At the moment they are none of these things, in my humble opinion.
A government of the people, for the people with a radical overhaul of the entire political system. Which I know sounds rather Marxist and idealist and I'm not advocating taking a Guy Fawkes approach just yet, but I think it is the only way to bring back some kind of integrity to the whole political process. One party promoting its own agenda will never achieve that.
I would not trust any one political party as they serve their own needs first before that of you or I, regardless of who you voted for.
What the answer is, I don't know. And I don't know how I'm going to vote. The sad thing is after fighting so hard and long to get the right for the vote, we now find the desperate need for someone to actually vote for.
Sex God
:worship: :worship: :worship: Res... that pretty much covers it for me and you're absolutely right, it's not the MP's that we should be outraged with, it's the fact that they are legally able to claim expenses in this manner at all. Who makes these rules?
The rest of us have to live within our means and use expenses (if at all) for the purpose they are meant to be used for, i.e. to claim back a business expense. Mortgages, swimming pools, porn, weekly shops, etc. are NOT business expenses.
I have no idea who I'll be voting for... probably for the one who doesn't put trash through my letterbox nearer the time.
Not a good reason to vote. Quote by Resonance
......snip
As daft as it sounds, we need to take the 'politic' out of politics. We need to lose the blue, reds and oranges, the left and right wings. It is time politicians started serving us and our wants and needs as they are supposedly elected to do, rather than scoffing at the expense bowl from the public purse to pay for maintainance to their moat or swimming pool, or to promote their own parties agenda, which may be quite at odds with the majority view in the country. Politicians need to be judged on what they achieve locally, nationally and internationally, and not the colour of their tie and banner they rally behind. They need to be transparent, honest, independent and answerable. At the moment they are none of these things, in my humble opinion.
It's not daft at all Res, you have hit the nail fair and square on the head. Parliament has long forgotten that it is elected to serve US ( that's you and me...not the USA!) ...MPs may pay lip service to their constituants but in reality only serve their party machine. Maybe it's time for a lot more canditates to stand as Independents?
:worship: :worship: :worship: Res... that pretty much covers it for me and you're absolutely right, it's not the MP's that we should be outraged with, it's the fact that they are legally able to claim expenses in this manner at all. Who makes these rules?
quote]
Hmmmm, I think you will find that its the MPs that make their own rules!
Sex God
Quote by Max777
Res... that pretty much covers it for me and you're absolutely right, it's not the MP's that we should be outraged with, it's the fact that they are legally able to claim expenses in this manner at all. Who makes these rules?
Hmmmm, I think you will find that its the MPs that make their own rules!
Well they need changed!!
Well as some will know I listen to Gaunty on occasions, and he has been saying our MP'S have been on the take for years.
For those who want to know have a read of this link especially the last couple of paragraphs.
The bit that goes " Two years ago I was the first to call all MPs “self-serving pigs with their snouts in the trough†and the liberal intelligentsia and the political Press luvvies said I was over the top, and that not all politicians were the same.
Well I am afraid — and I take great pleasure in saying it — I was right and they were wrong ".
Still it is always nice to know that you was right all along...well done Gaunty. But I bet those same " liberal intelligentsias " will be bloody silent now.
I agree that ALL the MP'S caught riding the fraud gravy train, should be sacked at the next election. They should be told they cannot stand again as an MP for ten years. That should stop any future " thief " from thinking about " cleaning their mote out ", or claiming for their Tampaxes at OUR expense!
For those who want to know have a read of this link especially the last couple of paragraphs.
The bit that goes " Two years ago I was the first to call all MPs “self-serving pigs with their snouts in the trough†and the liberal intelligentsia and the political Press luvvies said I was over the top, and that not all politicians were the same.
Well I am afraid — and I take great pleasure in saying it — I was right and they were wrong ".
Still it is always nice to know that you was right all along...well done Gaunty. But I bet those same " liberal intelligentsias " will be bloody silent now.
I agree that ALL the MP'S caught riding the fraud gravy train, should be sacked at the next election. They should be told they cannot stand again as an MP for ten years. That should stop any future " thief " from thinking about " cleaning their mote out ", or claiming for their Tampaxes at OUR expense!
I rather like the idea of replacing every standing MP with an independent - after all, that is what Parliament is really all about; Party groupings are a fairly "modern" invention in the Mother of all Parliaments but in essence every MP is independent and can at any time relinquish the party whip.
Witness the success of some notable independents - two in particular in recent times. The "man in a white suit" (Martin Bell) who replaced Hamilton in a sleaze coup and the GP (Dr Richard Taylor) who defeated a sitting government minister (David Lock - Labour - Lord Chancellor's Department) in 2001 to take Wyre Forest after campaigning on a single issue - saving the local Kidderminster Hospital which the government planned to downgrade. In 2005, he became the only Independent MP to have retained his seat for a second term in the house since the 1949 elections.
As for continuity, the Permanent Secretaries hold most of the day to day power in running the Departments of State so there would be little problem with having a House full of Independents. The Speaker holds the power in the Chamber (elected by the House) and there is no official post of Prime Minister in English politics. By tradition, the leader of the Political Party with the majority of MP's is invited by the Sovereign to form a Government and is actually referred to as the First Lord of The Treasury.
In the event of a House full of Independents, there would be some interesting manoeuvres behind the scenes but constitutionally, it would be a fascinating prospect and one I would dearly love to watch at close quarters.
If Gaunty stood as an Independent, KT7's signature might become a reality - perish the thought. :scared:
Witness the success of some notable independents - two in particular in recent times. The "man in a white suit" (Martin Bell) who replaced Hamilton in a sleaze coup and the GP (Dr Richard Taylor) who defeated a sitting government minister (David Lock - Labour - Lord Chancellor's Department) in 2001 to take Wyre Forest after campaigning on a single issue - saving the local Kidderminster Hospital which the government planned to downgrade. In 2005, he became the only Independent MP to have retained his seat for a second term in the house since the 1949 elections.
As for continuity, the Permanent Secretaries hold most of the day to day power in running the Departments of State so there would be little problem with having a House full of Independents. The Speaker holds the power in the Chamber (elected by the House) and there is no official post of Prime Minister in English politics. By tradition, the leader of the Political Party with the majority of MP's is invited by the Sovereign to form a Government and is actually referred to as the First Lord of The Treasury.
In the event of a House full of Independents, there would be some interesting manoeuvres behind the scenes but constitutionally, it would be a fascinating prospect and one I would dearly love to watch at close quarters.
If Gaunty stood as an Independent, KT7's signature might become a reality - perish the thought. :scared:
Quote by GnV
I rather like the idea of replacing every standing MP with an independent - after all, that is what Parliament is really all about; Party groupings are a fairly "modern" invention in the Mother of all Parliaments but in essence every MP is independent and can at any time relinquish the party whip.
Witness the success of some notable independents - two in particular in recent times. The "man in a white suit" (Martin Bell) who replaced Hamilton in a sleaze coup and the GP (Dr Richard Taylor) who defeated a sitting government minister (David Lock - Labour - Lord Chancellor's Department) in 2001 to take Wyre Forest after campaigning on a single issue - saving the local Kidderminster Hospital which the government planned to downgrade. In 2005, he became the only Independent MP to have retained his seat for a second term in the house since the 1949 elections.
As for continuity, the Permanent Secretaries hold most of the day to day power in running the Departments of State so there would be little problem with having a House full of Independents. The Speaker holds the power in the Chamber (elected by the House) and there is no official post of Prime Minister in English politics. By tradition, the leader of the Political Party with the majority of MP's is invited by the Sovereign to form a Government and is actually referred to as the First lord of The Treasury.
In the event of a House full of Independents, there would be some interesting manoeuvres behind the scenes but constitutionally, it would be a fascinating prospect and one I would dearly love to watch at close quarters.
If Gaunty stood as an Independent, KT7's signature might become a reality - perish the thought. :scared:
I tell you what GNV....I would rather trust Gaunty to be in charge of this country, than the current lot of liars, thieves and hypocrits.....that's for sure.
Quote by kentswingers777
I tell you what GNV....I would rather trust Gaunty to be in charge of this country, than the current lot of liars, thieves and hypocrits.....that's for sure.
Anyone with half a brain cell (including Gaunty) would be better than the bunch of halfwits that are there now :shock:
Sex God
Apolitical government (in times of peace) has and probably always will be indecisive ineffectual and borderline unworkable,the constant bartering of votes and switching of loyalties would be disastrous.
People have been fiddling their expenses since expenses where invented,M.P.s are no different to anyone else in that respect.
What seems to be forgotten is that WE elected them,and we got the government the country deserved...an apathetic, uninvolved,politically ignorant population will tend to get just that kind of government.
There is no doubt in my mind that parliaments position on this is both morally bankrupt (they only claimed within the rules !!)and and in many cases of dubious said if the choice is (as it may be)between M.P.s claiming outrageous expenses and being bought by big business (you know who you are Mr Fayed)I know which I prefer.
People have been fiddling their expenses since expenses where invented,M.P.s are no different to anyone else in that respect.
What seems to be forgotten is that WE elected them,and we got the government the country deserved...an apathetic, uninvolved,politically ignorant population will tend to get just that kind of government.
There is no doubt in my mind that parliaments position on this is both morally bankrupt (they only claimed within the rules !!)and and in many cases of dubious said if the choice is (as it may be)between M.P.s claiming outrageous expenses and being bought by big business (you know who you are Mr Fayed)I know which I prefer.
Sexpert
I think it's all pretty much been said.
Obviously the system needs to be changed and policed properly - transparency and openness etc.
It doesn't surprise me that they've been at it, though I am somewhat taken aback by the scale and amounts involved, and that they've been allowed to get away with it for so long.
But on a slightly different tack, I don't think MPs' salaries are high enough (though there are many who don't deserve the job at all).
Think of schools, hospitals, councils. police. Fire Service etc, many of the principal officers earn £200k pa plus, that's an outrage in my view and their salaries should be capped and pay scales set by an independent body, and published. The amounts involved here are far greater than those of the MPs, and there are lots more of them.
In comparison, MPs' salaries look pretty sick for the responsibilities they have. Personally I wouldn't do their job for so little (and obviously many of them have come to the same conclusion
).
Also, I feel an MP's job should be full time, not supplemented by the 5 or 6 directorships each bringing in £20k pa or so, that most senior ministers enjoy. Apart from the obvious conflict of interests, how on earth can they devote the time necessary to honouring their obligations to the post? (what with having to fiddle their expenses as well!
)
I've never really had any time for any of them, I don't think my opinion has changed because of the current scandal, just confirmed.
I know we have to have government, but it seems to me that those who most seek to be in it, are almost by definition, those least suited.
Please let me win the euro lotto so I can buy an island and declare independence
Obviously the system needs to be changed and policed properly - transparency and openness etc.
It doesn't surprise me that they've been at it, though I am somewhat taken aback by the scale and amounts involved, and that they've been allowed to get away with it for so long.
But on a slightly different tack, I don't think MPs' salaries are high enough (though there are many who don't deserve the job at all).
Think of schools, hospitals, councils. police. Fire Service etc, many of the principal officers earn £200k pa plus, that's an outrage in my view and their salaries should be capped and pay scales set by an independent body, and published. The amounts involved here are far greater than those of the MPs, and there are lots more of them.
In comparison, MPs' salaries look pretty sick for the responsibilities they have. Personally I wouldn't do their job for so little (and obviously many of them have come to the same conclusion
).Also, I feel an MP's job should be full time, not supplemented by the 5 or 6 directorships each bringing in £20k pa or so, that most senior ministers enjoy. Apart from the obvious conflict of interests, how on earth can they devote the time necessary to honouring their obligations to the post? (what with having to fiddle their expenses as well!
)I've never really had any time for any of them, I don't think my opinion has changed because of the current scandal, just confirmed.
I know we have to have government, but it seems to me that those who most seek to be in it, are almost by definition, those least suited.
Please let me win the euro lotto so I can buy an island and declare independence
Sex God
I thought it a bit sad that Ming Campbell got jeered the way he did, he paid back what he should not have claimed but I can accept that as a misjudgment on his part. I do believe he is one of the few honourable politicians we have. His error is nothing when we look at people like Blears, Smith, Mandelson who clearly can't claim to have simply made a bad judgement as they were clearly defrauding the tax payer.
It's ridiculous that such a system even stayed secret for this long and what the McD executive said is right, companies all over the country have expenses systems that restrict what you can claim to what is necessarily expense incurred in the course of business ... there's no reason why such a system should not be in used in the Commons. Of course they have expenses most people would not - eg. hire of an office, staff to run it - and any new system would have to cater for that and STOP the scam of hiring family members for doing fuck all!
It's ridiculous that such a system even stayed secret for this long and what the McD executive said is right, companies all over the country have expenses systems that restrict what you can claim to what is necessarily expense incurred in the course of business ... there's no reason why such a system should not be in used in the Commons. Of course they have expenses most people would not - eg. hire of an office, staff to run it - and any new system would have to cater for that and STOP the scam of hiring family members for doing fuck all!
its sickening, but been going on for years.
i understand they are now looking into the police expense claims etc?
if the politicians are paying back the money that in itsself shows guilt.
what really fucks me off ( and imnot excusing either acts) is that not one singemphas yet been arrested or sacked. if they have commited fraud why not?
if a young family on benefit got offered some cash in hand work and the system finds out they did it it comes down on them like a ton of bricks, investigated, interviwed under caution, convicted of fraud. it may have amounted to a few £100 yet a mp can screw £100,000 out of the system and nothing??
oh i forgot they pay it back, nice to have that cash sat in the fucking bank to be able to just write a cheque.
why dosent he family on benefit just pay it back?? because they are in genuine hardship.
survival against gread, these mps didnt even need to claim this crap.
it will all calm down and happen again.
x fem x
i understand they are now looking into the police expense claims etc?
if the politicians are paying back the money that in itsself shows guilt.
what really fucks me off ( and imnot excusing either acts) is that not one singemphas yet been arrested or sacked. if they have commited fraud why not?
if a young family on benefit got offered some cash in hand work and the system finds out they did it it comes down on them like a ton of bricks, investigated, interviwed under caution, convicted of fraud. it may have amounted to a few £100 yet a mp can screw £100,000 out of the system and nothing??
oh i forgot they pay it back, nice to have that cash sat in the fucking bank to be able to just write a cheque.
why dosent he family on benefit just pay it back?? because they are in genuine hardship.
survival against gread, these mps didnt even need to claim this crap.
it will all calm down and happen again.
x fem x
Quote by easyrider_xxx
But on a slightly different tack, I don't think MPs' salaries are high enough (though there are many who don't deserve the job at all).
In comparison, MPs' salaries look pretty sick for the responsibilities they have. Personally I wouldn't do their job for so little (and obviously many of them have come to the same conclusion
On £65,000 a year and 2 months off in the summer and 3 months off at christmas...where do i sign up...any politician want to quit let me know i'll do his job...Politicians are not badly paid,no one forces it upon them,they can quite easily quit and get real jobs if they wanted too,but they won't...and we all know why...its a piss easy job to do...that involves a few midnight finishes...big fucking deal!!
Sexpert
yeah yeah, but during those parliamentary recesses, they're supposed to be doing constituency work.
It's not so much that it's a difficult job, it's that it is high responsibility. For example, the Defence secretary has the responsibility to ensure that we have adequate armed forces to defend our borders and keep the population safe from acts of war. That's a big job by anyone's standards. The Prime Minister, our senior statesperson, representing national interests at home and abroad etc etc - a big job, big responsibilities, but we pay him less than we pay a head teacher at a failing secondary school (ok I agree it could be argued that the current PM is not even worth that much).
Mr Powers, it's easy, all you have to do is stand for election. Of course you will have to campaign exceedingly hard, be articulate, engaging, and have some policies - go for it if you think it's that easy
It's not so much that it's a difficult job, it's that it is high responsibility. For example, the Defence secretary has the responsibility to ensure that we have adequate armed forces to defend our borders and keep the population safe from acts of war. That's a big job by anyone's standards. The Prime Minister, our senior statesperson, representing national interests at home and abroad etc etc - a big job, big responsibilities, but we pay him less than we pay a head teacher at a failing secondary school (ok I agree it could be argued that the current PM is not even worth that much).
Mr Powers, it's easy, all you have to do is stand for election. Of course you will have to campaign exceedingly hard, be articulate, engaging, and have some policies - go for it if you think it's that easy
Quote by easyrider_xxx
yeah yeah, but during those parliamentary recesses, they're supposed to be doing constituency work.
It's not so much that it's a difficult job, it's that it is high responsibility. For example, the Defence secretary has the responsibility to ensure that we have adequate armed forces to defend our borders and keep the population safe from acts of war. That's a big job by anyone's standards. The Prime Minister, our senior statesperson, representing national interests at home and abroad etc etc - a big job, big responsibilities, but we pay him less than we pay a head teacher at a failing secondary school (ok I agree it could be argued that the current PM is not even worth that much).
Mr Powers, it's easy, all you have to do is stand for election. Of course you will have to campaign exceedingly hard, be articulate, engaging, and have some policies - go for it if you think it's that easy
you've only mentioned cabinet ministers...how difficult is it a job to just be a simple MP...and if i'm not mistaken Gordon Brown practically forced Blair out...why...no one was forcing Brown to take over a job that commands such responsibility...if it was suppose to be that bad...why doesn't he become a headteacher instead...he has that choice...don't give then more money for the jobs they do all ready...if they don't like it,they can leave...just like any employer would say to an employee...which must be happening across the country right now...because its sure as well happening in my line of work.
I have just finished watching this weeks question time, and was funny to see Margaret Beckett squirming in her chair, or Ming Campbell trying to justify himself.
Bottom line here is that MP'S have a system where they can exploit that very system. They are supposed to be Honourable people, and lets not forget that a lot of MP'S have not been on the take.
As for their wages I admit it seems high to the average person, but it is not overly high, when you consider other top jobs in the public sector.
For example a GP can earn far in excess of that, as can a run of the mill school's headteacher.
has made his points about how easy it is to be an MP, I do not agree with that. There is a lot of work that they do for their constituants, and as Ming Campbell said he has done 73 hours work last week.
The whole issue here is that there needs to be change in as much as what expenses can be claimed. If an MP has been blatantly found out to have over stepped the mark, he should not be able to stand again at the next election.
I know that the telly shows MP'S just fall asleep in the House, and then have x ammount of days off but....there is a lot more to being an MP than what has been mentioned. I do not think it is that much of an easy job to be honest.
I think a GP has an easy job for his/her 100 grand plus a year. They sit in their surgeries, see their patients and give out prescriptions. That is how a lot of people see it but....we all know there is far more to it than that. The same goes for MP'S.
All I ask for is transparency and clearer guidelines as to what you can and cannot claim for, and an independent body that oversees all expense claims.
Bottom line here is that MP'S have a system where they can exploit that very system. They are supposed to be Honourable people, and lets not forget that a lot of MP'S have not been on the take.
As for their wages I admit it seems high to the average person, but it is not overly high, when you consider other top jobs in the public sector.
For example a GP can earn far in excess of that, as can a run of the mill school's headteacher.
has made his points about how easy it is to be an MP, I do not agree with that. There is a lot of work that they do for their constituants, and as Ming Campbell said he has done 73 hours work last week.
The whole issue here is that there needs to be change in as much as what expenses can be claimed. If an MP has been blatantly found out to have over stepped the mark, he should not be able to stand again at the next election.
I know that the telly shows MP'S just fall asleep in the House, and then have x ammount of days off but....there is a lot more to being an MP than what has been mentioned. I do not think it is that much of an easy job to be honest.
I think a GP has an easy job for his/her 100 grand plus a year. They sit in their surgeries, see their patients and give out prescriptions. That is how a lot of people see it but....we all know there is far more to it than that. The same goes for MP'S.
All I ask for is transparency and clearer guidelines as to what you can and cannot claim for, and an independent body that oversees all expense claims.
The expense guidlines are so clear and straight forward but these greedy parasites twisted the interpretation of it inorder to deep their fithy fingers in the gravy train...whats the point of paying back if they believe they were right, this is a total insult to voters i think the june local and European election should be suspended until we have new candidates....but if you think BNP will do better you need to wake up!
Sex God
Quote by easyrider_xxx
Think of schools, hospitals, councils. police. Fire Service etc, many of the principal officers earn £200k pa plus, that's an outrage in my view and their salaries should be capped and pay scales set by an independent body, and published. The amounts involved here are far greater than those of the MPs, and there are lots more of them.
Sorry to chop your post but this bit caught my eye. By principal officers, who do you mean? If, in the case of schools, you mean headteachers, then there are relatively few who earn £200K plus.
Sex God
Quote by Phuckers
The expense guidlines are so clear and straight forward but these greedy parasites twisted the interpretation of it inorder to deep their fithy fingers in the gravy train...whats the point of paying back if they believe they were right, this is a total insult to voters i think the june local and European election should be suspended until we have new candidates....but if you think BNP will do better you need to wake up!
Agreed.
Sex God
Quote by Freckledbird
The expense guidlines are so clear and straight forward but these greedy parasites twisted the interpretation of it inorder to deep their fithy fingers in the gravy train...whats the point of paying back if they believe they were right, this is a total insult to voters i think the june local and European election should be suspended until we have new candidates....but if you think BNP will do better you need to wake up!
Agreed.
Totally agreed.
Quote by Mr-Powers
yeah yeah, but during those parliamentary recesses, they're supposed to be doing constituency work.
It's not so much that it's a difficult job, it's that it is high responsibility. For example, the Defence secretary has the responsibility to ensure that we have adequate armed forces to defend our borders and keep the population safe from acts of war. That's a big job by anyone's standards. The Prime Minister, our senior statesperson, representing national interests at home and abroad etc etc - a big job, big responsibilities, but we pay him less than we pay a head teacher at a failing secondary school (ok I agree it could be argued that the current PM is not even worth that much).
Mr Powers, it's easy, all you have to do is stand for election. Of course you will have to campaign exceedingly hard, be articulate, engaging, and have some policies - go for it if you think it's that easy
you've only mentioned cabinet ministers...how difficult is it a job to just be a simple MP...and if i'm not mistaken Gordon Brown practically forced Blair out...why...no one was forcing Brown to take over a job that commands such responsibility...if it was suppose to be that bad...why doesn't he become a headteacher instead...he has that choice...don't give then more money for the jobs they do all ready...if they don't like it,they can leave...just like any employer would say to an employee...which must be happening across the country right now...because its sure as well happening in my line of work.
Have to say I'm in agreement with Mr Powers here, especially when it comes to ordinary MPs. Ming Campbell was trying to argue that when he first went into politics, he was told that the salary was comparable to that of a GP and that it has now fallen way behind. Doctors have to study for years to become a GP...there is no formal qualification required to become an MP!
A bog standard MPs salary is certainly comparable to a senior managers salary in the private sector ( excluding all those grossly overpaid bankers)and a cabinet minister's salary is more than twice that again. A lot of these politicians are now "career politicians" having done nothing else and I'm sure that a lot of them would find it difficult to command those sort of salaries elsewhere.
Sex God
Quote by Freckledbird
The expense guidlines are so clear and straight forward but these greedy parasites twisted the interpretation of it inorder to deep their fithy fingers in the gravy train...whats the point of paying back if they believe they were right, this is a total insult to voters i think the june local and European election should be suspended until we have new candidates....but if you think BNP will do better you need to wake up!
Agreed.
Joining the FB and Phuckers love in...
The idea of the BNP profiting from people's apathy or anger is utterly frightening for the future.
Sex God
Why should they be allowed to claim for second houses and furnishing expenses ???
Itstheir choice to become an MP so they should realise the implications of doing so...
Not expect others to foot the bill.....
Itstheir choice to become an MP so they should realise the implications of doing so...
Not expect others to foot the bill.....
Quote by Steve
Why should they be allowed to claim for second houses and furnishing expenses ???
Its their choice to become an MP so they should realise the implications of doing so...
Not expect others to foot the bill.....
Not nitpicking nor supporting what they have/are doing but its their choice to stand as an MP and the Electorate's choice for them to become an MP. Perhaps its that subtle difference that leads them to believe in their entitlement.
Warming the Bed
hi vote for me i will not lie to you i will rip u off goodstyle ps paid my subscription on here on expenses for research xxx
So Gorbals Mick falls on his sword... :thrilled:
He could have been saved the embarrassment of course if Gawdy Borrown had called a snap election but, of course, we know he aint got no balls (other than Ed Balls of course) and so someone else has to be the fall guy.
How will Gorby Mick cope now without his very expensive wallpaper after 21st June?
He'll still have his snout in the trough of course, as by convention, he takes a seat in the Lords despite having called for its closure for donkeys years :shock:
He could have been saved the embarrassment of course if Gawdy Borrown had called a snap election but, of course, we know he aint got no balls (other than Ed Balls of course) and so someone else has to be the fall guy.
How will Gorby Mick cope now without his very expensive wallpaper after 21st June?
He'll still have his snout in the trough of course, as by convention, he takes a seat in the Lords despite having called for its closure for donkeys years :shock:
