One in five guys, think it is ok to slap women...
To slap a woman is NEVER right, but will putting these " thugs " on a register really work??
We have read recently the story of Chris Brown, who beat his girlfriend so badly. But a major problem is that a lot of these women go back to the very guy who hits them.........why?
Domestic violence is a major problem in a lot of homes, and up until recently, the police could not take any action unless the victim, pressed charges. Which most never would, a lot of the times through fear alone.
But new laws mean that the police can act, even without the victims consent, is that right?
The figures on domestic violence are grim to say the least but....will it make a jot of difference to these blokes, these bullys, because that is what they are, to be put on some kind of register?
What makes these guys tick, and what makes these women return to them, even after a severe beating?
A strong subject I know, but one that is worth discussing.
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Right to slap women?
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The police may arrest anyone who they believe may have committed an arrestable offence. That means they can arrest anyone they think has assaulted anyone, with the exception of common assault. Even if they do not have a complainant, and sort it out later.
In the case of a man or woman assaulting their partner the CPS may treat the partner as a hostile witness and go ahead without a complaint, taking the case to court.
It has been long excepted that women go back to men who have beat them. They claim that he is a nice man really or it was their own fault.
In many cases women will call the police and then when they arrive beg them not to arrest the man. They just want the police to tell him to stop. With out penalties the man never stops. It is sad, but they can not live without the man and are in danger of dieing with the man.
Travis
In the case of a man or woman assaulting their partner the CPS may treat the partner as a hostile witness and go ahead without a complaint, taking the case to court.
It has been long excepted that women go back to men who have beat them. They claim that he is a nice man really or it was their own fault.
In many cases women will call the police and then when they arrive beg them not to arrest the man. They just want the police to tell him to stop. With out penalties the man never stops. It is sad, but they can not live without the man and are in danger of dieing with the man.
Travis
Sex God
I just don't get it. 
A man would raise his hands to me once and only once. It would be the last thing they did. There are no second chances, there are no excuses.
I don't understand women who stay. Whilst I appreciate there are perhaps financial/security issues given as reasons to stay I don't get it. Why would you stay with a man who beats you? Same goes for men who stay with abusive women.
Love would certainly have to be blind but I suspect stupid to be more accurate. I'm sure someone will be along to berate me for my opinion but seriously... pull yourself together, have some respect for yourself and leave. There are options and they're far better than staying for a beating. Zero tolerance should be right across the board, inlcuding the women who put up with it.
Black and white possibly but in my world it really is that simple.
A man would raise his hands to me once and only once. It would be the last thing they did. There are no second chances, there are no excuses.
I don't understand women who stay. Whilst I appreciate there are perhaps financial/security issues given as reasons to stay I don't get it. Why would you stay with a man who beats you? Same goes for men who stay with abusive women.
Love would certainly have to be blind but I suspect stupid to be more accurate. I'm sure someone will be along to berate me for my opinion but seriously... pull yourself together, have some respect for yourself and leave. There are options and they're far better than staying for a beating. Zero tolerance should be right across the board, inlcuding the women who put up with it.
Black and white possibly but in my world it really is that simple.
Sex God
What about if the women hits them first?? 
Violence is not an answer though in any case be it men or women or both
For most women (and probably men in the same situation), its not just violence its mental abuse to, they can escape the physical abuse by leaving or phoning the police, but mental abuse goes much deeper so they actually think they can't cope without the man and they are kinda brainwashed and programmed to go back.
If the women leaves with her kids sometimes the kids can follow in the man's footsteps and lash out at their mother - the women go back so the men will discipline the children, as the man in these cases is usually the disciplinarian. I've known men who break into a women's refuge just to slit his wrists in front of his wife, not a serious suicide attempt but an attempt to brainwash the women into going home "he needs me/can't live without me"
It is not always as black & white as people make it out to be :cry:
Violence is not an answer though in any case be it men or women or both
For most women (and probably men in the same situation), its not just violence its mental abuse to, they can escape the physical abuse by leaving or phoning the police, but mental abuse goes much deeper so they actually think they can't cope without the man and they are kinda brainwashed and programmed to go back.
If the women leaves with her kids sometimes the kids can follow in the man's footsteps and lash out at their mother - the women go back so the men will discipline the children, as the man in these cases is usually the disciplinarian. I've known men who break into a women's refuge just to slit his wrists in front of his wife, not a serious suicide attempt but an attempt to brainwash the women into going home "he needs me/can't live without me"
It is not always as black & white as people make it out to be :cry:
Sex God
Quote by kentswingers777
One in five guys, think it is ok to slap women...
To slap a woman is NEVER right, but will putting these " thugs " on a register really work??
We have read recently the story of Chris Brown, who beat his girlfriend so badly. But a major problem is that a lot of these women go back to the very guy who hits them.........why?
Domestic violence is a major problem in a lot of homes, and up until recently, the police could not take any action unless the victim, pressed charges. Which most never would, a lot of the times through fear alone.
But new laws mean that the police can act, even without the victims consent, is that right?
The figures on domestic violence are grim to say the least but....will it make a jot of difference to these blokes, these bullys, because that is what they are, to be put on some kind of register?
What makes these guys tick, and what makes these women return to them, even after a severe beating?
A strong subject I know, but one that is worth discussing.
thank you dean for saying what I was going to
it is never right to hit ANYONE....... its a quite personal topic for me, because I know in the scene women who have been hit by men.... and personally men who have been hit by women
its not good regardless of who is hitting who
Quote by Dirtygirly
I just don't get it.
A man would raise his hands to me once and only once. It would be the last thing they did. There are no second chances, there are no excuses.
I don't understand women who stay. Whilst I appreciate there are perhaps financial/security issues given as reasons to stay I don't get it. Why would you stay with a man who beats you? Same goes for men who stay with abusive women.
Love would certainly have to be blind but I suspect stupid to be more accurate. I'm sure someone will be along to berate me for my opinion but seriously... pull yourself together, have some respect for yourself and leave. There are options and they're far better than staying for a beating. Zero tolerance should be right across the board, inlcuding the women who put up with it.
Black and white possibly but in my world it really is that simple.
Its one of those situations where you really cant judge until you've been there.
Master of Sex
For man to hit a woman is totally wrong and out of order,and for the who say it is ok to hit a woman in that article,they should be slapped and see who they like the pain of getting slapped,i have a feeling they wouldn'y like it at all.
And to be honest with you i think a man who hits a woman is the lowest of the low,and deserve a good beating for hitting a woman.
And from what i have read i the other posts i also can't understand why people return to the bullying partner (male/female),they say that they love the person,it is more like they are scared of being alone.
And to be honest with you i think a man who hits a woman is the lowest of the low,and deserve a good beating for hitting a woman.
And from what i have read i the other posts i also can't understand why people return to the bullying partner (male/female),they say that they love the person,it is more like they are scared of being alone.
Sex God
Quote by janemcc
I just don't get it.
A man would raise his hands to me once and only once. It would be the last thing they did. There are no second chances, there are no excuses.
I don't understand women who stay. Whilst I appreciate there are perhaps financial/security issues given as reasons to stay I don't get it. Why would you stay with a man who beats you? Same goes for men who stay with abusive women.
Love would certainly have to be blind but I suspect stupid to be more accurate. I'm sure someone will be along to berate me for my opinion but seriously... pull yourself together, have some respect for yourself and leave. There are options and they're far better than staying for a beating. Zero tolerance should be right across the board, inlcuding the women who put up with it.
Black and white possibly but in my world it really is that simple.
Its one of those situations where you really cant judge until you've been there.
Indeed, which is why it is black and white in my world! :thumbup:
My sister was beaten by her then boyfriend for all the time that sh was with him. Why did she stay? she loved him and he made her believe it was her fault. It wore on her self esteem and then felt worthless.
As a family we all knew what was happening and short of locking her away forever we were powerless to stop it. She rang my pops one night screaming for help, when my dad got there she begged him not to hit the boyfriend. My dad said to this day he doesn't know how he left her there but what choice did he have, he didn't want her to completly alienate her self from us all so he did as she asked.
It took him smashing her head into a wall and knocking her front tooth out and bruising her eye from her eyebrow to the bottom of her cheekbone whilsh their 6 week old baby was sleeping in the other room before she finally had the courage to leave him. He was charged and had to pay her over a grand in compensation.
The bigger picture tho as a family we were able to sleep again at night and not worry we were going to have the police at the door saying she was dead.
Unless you have been in the situation I think its really difficult to say what you would do.
Did you know domestic violence often starts of worsens during pregnancy?
For anyone that needs it
As a family we all knew what was happening and short of locking her away forever we were powerless to stop it. She rang my pops one night screaming for help, when my dad got there she begged him not to hit the boyfriend. My dad said to this day he doesn't know how he left her there but what choice did he have, he didn't want her to completly alienate her self from us all so he did as she asked.
It took him smashing her head into a wall and knocking her front tooth out and bruising her eye from her eyebrow to the bottom of her cheekbone whilsh their 6 week old baby was sleeping in the other room before she finally had the courage to leave him. He was charged and had to pay her over a grand in compensation.
The bigger picture tho as a family we were able to sleep again at night and not worry we were going to have the police at the door saying she was dead.
Unless you have been in the situation I think its really difficult to say what you would do.
Did you know domestic violence often starts of worsens during pregnancy?
For anyone that needs it
I agree with Dirty on this one but.....there must be many reasons as to why women do go back, or stay. Maybe kids, or financial, or just too shit scared to leave.
I read a story a while back about a woman who was too terrified to leave her partner, as he had always told her he would kill her if she did.
The police tried to help her but, she decided to stay. When she did eventually leave after another severe beating, she was put into a womans hostel, for battered wives.
He did track her down and he did do what he threatened to do...he killed her.
It must be the worst possible scenario to be in, when not only does the woman have to put up with the abuse but, also the fear of him carrying out his threat, which some do.
The law should be made very clear on this issue, and women need far more help than they currently get.
But women who actually leave their abusive partners, only to return, some would say they almost deserve what they get after. I do not agree on that one, as I feel there is NO excuse to hit a woman. Until society accepts that it is wrong, under ANY circumastances to hit a woman, we will hear of the all too many sad cases, where it leads to death.
The only reasons I can see why men do it is because they are cowards. I bet they would not treat another guy like that, as the guy would smack him one back.
A national register I feel will not help unless other organisations are allowed to view it, like a future employer. That would show what kind of scum bag they could be employing. But no doubt some bully would use the Human rights act, as an infringement of HIS rights.
Easy answer? There as always is not a simple answer, other than to let the bully know it will never happen again....and mean it.
I read a story a while back about a woman who was too terrified to leave her partner, as he had always told her he would kill her if she did.
The police tried to help her but, she decided to stay. When she did eventually leave after another severe beating, she was put into a womans hostel, for battered wives.
He did track her down and he did do what he threatened to do...he killed her.
It must be the worst possible scenario to be in, when not only does the woman have to put up with the abuse but, also the fear of him carrying out his threat, which some do.
The law should be made very clear on this issue, and women need far more help than they currently get.
But women who actually leave their abusive partners, only to return, some would say they almost deserve what they get after. I do not agree on that one, as I feel there is NO excuse to hit a woman. Until society accepts that it is wrong, under ANY circumastances to hit a woman, we will hear of the all too many sad cases, where it leads to death.
The only reasons I can see why men do it is because they are cowards. I bet they would not treat another guy like that, as the guy would smack him one back.
A national register I feel will not help unless other organisations are allowed to view it, like a future employer. That would show what kind of scum bag they could be employing. But no doubt some bully would use the Human rights act, as an infringement of HIS rights.
Easy answer? There as always is not a simple answer, other than to let the bully know it will never happen again....and mean it.
I think it is the fear for alot of people. Especially if you have children as you will always have a connection with that person you can't just disapeer forever.
When I was growing up my dad used to hit my mum. I wonder if in some strange way my sister thought it was the norm to be beaten by your partner
When I was growing up my dad used to hit my mum. I wonder if in some strange way my sister thought it was the norm to be beaten by your partner
Quote by Dirtygirly
I just don't get it.
A man would raise his hands to me once and only once. It would be the last thing they did. There are no second chances, there are no excuses.
I don't understand women who stay. Whilst I appreciate there are perhaps financial/security issues given as reasons to stay I don't get it. Why would you stay with a man who beats you? Same goes for men who stay with abusive women.
Love would certainly have to be blind but I suspect stupid to be more accurate. I'm sure someone will be along to berate me for my opinion but seriously... pull yourself together, have some respect for yourself and leave. There are options and they're far better than staying for a beating. Zero tolerance should be right across the board, inlcuding the women who put up with it.
Black and white possibly but in my world it really is that simple.
In most cases it's the threat of what the abuser would do to the victim if they did leave that makes them stay. Sometimes those threats are extended to the victim's family so they stay and put up with it for a number of reasons.
1. They feel there's always the slimmest chance that they would change. Abusers never do but sometimes there really is some love left especially when the abuser goes back to being his/her normal loving self for a while
2. The abuser threatens the victim with even worse if they dared to up and leave.
3. Threats are made against the victims family so they stay to protect them.
4. They've had their confidence beaten out of them so the physical act of actually packing a bag and leaving is too much to even contemplate.
5. They have nowhere else to go and no money. They feel it's not fair to uproot the kids from their homes to start over again with nothing.
6. Victims feel ashamed and they try to keep it secret from their family.
How do I know? All that stuff above was called my first marriage.
Sex God
Quote by Sassy-Seren
I just don't get it.
A man would raise his hands to me once and only once. It would be the last thing they did. There are no second chances, there are no excuses.
I don't understand women who stay. Whilst I appreciate there are perhaps financial/security issues given as reasons to stay I don't get it. Why would you stay with a man who beats you? Same goes for men who stay with abusive women.
Love would certainly have to be blind but I suspect stupid to be more accurate. I'm sure someone will be along to berate me for my opinion but seriously... pull yourself together, have some respect for yourself and leave. There are options and they're far better than staying for a beating. Zero tolerance should be right across the board, inlcuding the women who put up with it.
Black and white possibly but in my world it really is that simple.
In most cases it's the threat of what the abuser would do to the victim if they did leave that makes them stay. Sometimes those threats are extended to the victim's family so they stay and put up with it for a number of reasons.
1. They feel there's always the slimmest chance that they would change. Abusers never do but sometimes there really is some love left especially when the abuser goes back to being his/her normal loving self for a while
2. The abuser threatens the victim with even worse if they dared to up and leave.
3. Threats are made against the victims family so they stay to protect them.
4. They've had their confidence beaten out of them so the physical act of actually packing a bag and leaving is too much to even contemplate.
5. They have nowhere else to go and no money. They feel it's not fair to uproot the kids from their homes to start over again with nothing.
6. Victims feel ashamed and they try to keep it secret from their family.
How do I know? All that stuff above was called my first marriage.
With respect, I chose not to be a victim.
Quote by Dirtygirly
I just don't get it.
A man would raise his hands to me once and only once. It would be the last thing they did. There are no second chances, there are no excuses.
I don't understand women who stay. Whilst I appreciate there are perhaps financial/security issues given as reasons to stay I don't get it. Why would you stay with a man who beats you? Same goes for men who stay with abusive women.
Love would certainly have to be blind but I suspect stupid to be more accurate. I'm sure someone will be along to berate me for my opinion but seriously... pull yourself together, have some respect for yourself and leave. There are options and they're far better than staying for a beating. Zero tolerance should be right across the board, inlcuding the women who put up with it.
Black and white possibly but in my world it really is that simple.
In most cases it's the threat of what the abuser would do to the victim if they did leave that makes them stay. Sometimes those threats are extended to the victim's family so they stay and put up with it for a number of reasons.
1. They feel there's always the slimmest chance that they would change. Abusers never do but sometimes there really is some love left especially when the abuser goes back to being his/her normal loving self for a while
2. The abuser threatens the victim with even worse if they dared to up and leave.
3. Threats are made against the victims family so they stay to protect them.
4. They've had their confidence beaten out of them so the physical act of actually packing a bag and leaving is too much to even contemplate.
5. They have nowhere else to go and no money. They feel it's not fair to uproot the kids from their homes to start over again with nothing.
6. Victims feel ashamed and they try to keep it secret from their family.
How do I know? All that stuff above was called my first marriage.
With respect, I chose not to be a victim.
I didn't 'choose' to become a victim - I was turned into one.
These days I'm made of sterner stuff and yes, I would up and leave even at the threat of violence. Back then, I wasn't. I admire women who find the strength to walk away from it from the off but it's unfair to tell a beaten wife to 'pull yourself together
I used the term 'victim' because that's what you become. You go through physical, mental and emotional torture and end up broken in more ways than just bones.
Sex God
Quote by Sassy-Seren
I didn't 'choose' to become a victim - I was turned into one.
These days I'm made of sterner stuff and yes, I would up and leave even at the threat of violence. Back then, I wasn't. I admire women who find the strength to walk away from it from the off but it's unfair to tell a beaten wife to 'pull yourself together
I used the term 'victim' because that's what you become. You go through physical, mental and emotional torture and end up broken in more ways than just bones.
I also choose to keep my personal stuff private. That's not to say there's anything wrong with sharing it, everyone is different. I choose not to but just so you're aware, I've not voiced my opinion without having walked that walk, albeit a slightly different path.
Perhaps "pull yourself together" wasn't quite the right phrase... but the sentiment is the same in my view. There's always a choice.
Quote by Dirtygirly
I didn't 'choose' to become a victim - I was turned into one.
These days I'm made of sterner stuff and yes, I would up and leave even at the threat of violence. Back then, I wasn't. I admire women who find the strength to walk away from it from the off but it's unfair to tell a beaten wife to 'pull yourself together
I used the term 'victim' because that's what you become. You go through physical, mental and emotional torture and end up broken in more ways than just bones.
I also choose to keep my personal stuff private. That's not to say there's anything wrong with sharing it, everyone is different. I choose not to but just so you're aware, I've not voiced my opinion without having walked that walk, albeit a slightly different path.
Perhaps "pull yourself together" wasn't quite the right phrase... but the sentiment is the same in my view. There's always a choice.
I gathered by your previous posts that you've been in the same situation and as I said I admire any woman who has the strength to walk away before it gets really bad.
I shared my past because that's exactly where it is - in the past. It wouldn't happen to me again but it did once.
I remember as a 7 year old, being lifted from my bed, and sat in a chair, so I could watch my mum's then husband beat and kick her, he figured by making me watch, it would hurt her even more, when the police and ambulance arrived, all my mum was worried about was me sat in the corner, all the police and ambulance crew were worried about was that a pregnant woman had just been punched and kicked.
Nothing was done to him.
Very shortly after this, late at night, I recall getting into a car, and some bags put in the boot, we got to our destination, and I was told this was our new home, it was a battered wives home, and I had no grasp on the concept. Shortly afterwards, my brother was born, he has cerebal palsy, almost certainly as a result of the beatings, life would never be normal, too much had happened.
A few years later, I went looking for him, I'm not proud of my behaviour that day, it is the one day I let my mum down, two wrongs don't make a right.
The mind of a 7 year old is very impressionable, the actions of a 18 year old is never always right, the memory of a 37 year old never fades.
Nothing was done to him.
Very shortly after this, late at night, I recall getting into a car, and some bags put in the boot, we got to our destination, and I was told this was our new home, it was a battered wives home, and I had no grasp on the concept. Shortly afterwards, my brother was born, he has cerebal palsy, almost certainly as a result of the beatings, life would never be normal, too much had happened.
A few years later, I went looking for him, I'm not proud of my behaviour that day, it is the one day I let my mum down, two wrongs don't make a right.
The mind of a 7 year old is very impressionable, the actions of a 18 year old is never always right, the memory of a 37 year old never fades.
Quote by Tan--Kinky
What about if the women hits them first??
very good point there Tan. I think this is one that many people overlook, and I am sure that more than one on five men would and do react with a blow when confronted by a woman who is flailing her arms and becoming violent.
Reasnonable self-defence surely has to be appropriate in such circumstances?
I think that it shouldnt be discounted just because one of the combatants is a woman.
I think the law itself in this country makes no-such distinction... although, wrongly, in my view, it pre-suposes that all male/female violence is domestic violence where the male has no "right" to raise his hand.
There is , I believe, only one surefire way to end a violent confrontation quickly, and that is to subdue ones opponent.
I feel that it is wrong to set an example or a benchmark to say that " you should never hit a woman!because it was and has been going on for generations in situations where it has been the ONLY solution.
Does it not give women some indication that they can do what they like to a man because there wont be any physical response... come off it.... that isnt equality is it? nor is it realistic, practical or the way of the world in general.
I say however, that If a man does react and he does effectively beat his female counterpart and injury then he only has himself to blame... because there are ways to prevent and control a person without losing control to the extent where there are real injury or numerous blows.
And before i get flamed... i just wish to point out that im simply saying there shouldnt be an out and out rule that male on female physical is improper... we all know of situations where it might have been appropriate.
Men who beat up their partners ( sometimes regularly), often infront of kids are lowlife scum who deserve and often do get their comeuppance for it.... I am not talking about them now...btw.
But if women strive for equality, and have in some way recieved it, they should be aware that if they wanna trade blows with a man, they will often come out second best.
Quote by DeeCee
What about if the women hits them first??
very good point there Tan. I think this is one that many people overlook, and I am sure that more than one on five men would and do react with a blow when confronted by a woman who is flailing her arms and becoming violent.
Reasnonable self-defence surely has to be appropriate in such circumstances?
I think that it shouldnt be discounted just because one of the combatants is a woman.
I think the law itself in this country makes no-such distinction... although, wrongly, in my view, it pre-suposes that all male/female violence is domestic violence where the male has no "right" to raise his hand.
There is , I believe, only one surefire way to end a violent confrontation quickly, and that is to subdue ones opponent.
I feel that it is wrong to set an example or a benchmark to say that " you should never hit a woman!because it was and has been going on for generations in situations where it has been the ONLY solution.
Does it not give women some indication that they can do what they like to a man because there wont be any physical response... come off it.... that isnt equality is it? nor is it realistic, practical or the way of the world in general.
I say however, that If a man does react and he does effectively beat his female counterpart and injury then he only has himself to blame... because there are ways to prevent and control a person without losing control to the extent where there are real injury or numerous blows.
And before i get flamed... i just wish to point out that im simply saying there shouldnt be an out and out rule that male on female physical is improper... we all know of situations where it might have been appropriate.
Men who beat up their partners ( sometimes regularly), often infront of kids are lowlife scum who deserve and often do get their comeuppance for it.... I am not talking about them now...btw.
But if women strive for equality, and have in some way recieved it, they should be aware that if they wanna trade blows with a man, they will often come out second best.
Good points there but..... I have picked up on something you said earlier on another thread.... " Maybe some will get the message that this site is predominantly for Swingers to have enjoyment and share a common bond.... ".
Does that statement not include a violence towards women thread, or only the ones you do not want to comment on? Sorry just a question.
Sex God
Quote by kentswingers777
Good points there but..... I have picked up on something you said earlier on another thread.... " Maybe some will get the message that this site is predominantly for Swingers to have enjoyment and share a common bond.... ".
Does that statement not include a violence towards women thread, or only the ones you do not want to comment on? Sorry just a question.
I'd say violence towards women is a whole lot more relevant on a swinging site than the IRA! :mrgreen:
Sex God
I wish it were that simple Dirty Girly, if it was then this terrible thing would not happen.
I have a friend going through this right at the moment. I have two others who have done so in the past. It is never a case of just growing up and "pulling themselves together".
It is also wrong to think of these women as stupid or ineffectual. None of my friends who have gone through this are either.
What you don't perhaps understand is that men who do this have often set a pattern in place which just escalates over time. It seldom happens that one day a mild mannered man flips his lid and lashes out. What happens is weeks, months, years even of conditioning. A cutting remark there, a gentle slap becomes a bit harder, a shove, a push, a kick up the arse, a punch... it is a slow escalation over time that breeds the acceptance of the violence that follows. This is all supported by callous manipulation and the destruction of a womans self-esteem and self-worth so in the end she feels entirely reliant on her abuser. He twists the love and trust she has in him to his own sadistic ends. Once he has achieved this, he can do what he likes.
Stick a frog in some hot water and he'll jump out immediately. Put him in cold water and slowly heat it up and he will remain in it until he dies. That is the difference.
Add into that a lot of women see what happens as somehow "their" fault. Their partner is only doing it for their benefit. This is slowly put to them time and time again so that when the abuse starts the person receiving the abuse actually believes it is their fault and what is happening is somehow natural. It sounds ludicrous but this is what happens. These women are not stupid, or victims. What they are is conditioned and manipulated and then abused.
Every single woman who I know who has suffered this has always said to me at some point "I thought it was my fault." They make excuses for their partner to rationalise what has happened. It makes no sense to an outside looking in. It makes perfect sense to them. That is why they go back. That and this fostered, warped sense of loyalty that the abuser has already planted in their psyche, that somehow what happens is for the womans own good, it isn't that he doesn't love her, but that he does it precisely because he DOES love her...so much in fact it hurts them both... her physically, him mentally.
Breaking the cycle can be as easy as walking away but it takes a very very brave woman to do that. Especially when she's been told she will be killed, or her children killed, or her family killed or maimed in some way. Especially if she has no place to go to, or indeed if she actually is in her home and he is just living with her. Especially if her family has a history of abuse... Sometimes it is a case of changing how a woman thinks first before she can break the cycle herself. It is about understanding her predicament and showing her the way out of it.
I only understand this because I've gone through it with two very close friends. I've sat up all night with one telling her word for word what to say to her abuser, telling her what to do and what not to do who was actually messaging her at the time. Incidentally if every you want a feeling of responsibility, try that out. Knowing if you get it wrong your friend is, at best, going to end up in hospital with her face mashed in and you are 60 miles away and powerless to do anything to stop it in time...Thankfully she, and my other friend are now happily and blissfully with someone else and have left the miserable, dark times behind them. Yes they can see the lunacy of what they believed at the time, but at the time, everything made sense to them.
As for the men who do this. They are worthless, servile, pathetic scum. When I went with my first friend to get him to sign legal documents regarding their house (which initially he had refused to sign because he still wanted contact with her). He didn't know I was coming. He answered the door to her with sneering contempt, only to suddenly turn on the charm when he realised I was with her. He could not have been more helpful. He signed the papers and she left immediately. He asked me if I wanted a drink. I just told him never to speak to me, or her, again or there would be consequences. And left it at that. That was 12 years ago.
I don't wish to sound the "Rambo" type, I could have beaten him to a bloody pulp. I'm a big, big chap, I've lifted the odd weight or six and done a fair bit of boxing. He was about 11 stone wet. But why don't I? Because if I do, I am no better than they are. Violence begets Violence. Far better to win the right way. Get her out, get her happy. Make him pay with loneliness, financial hardship and the realisation that he cannot get away with doing that. That, hopefully, lasts. Bruises and cuts fade, broken bones heal. It's lasted 12 years so far with one of my friends, 2 years with another and the process is just beginning with another. But she will get there, we'll make sure of it, and he will pay. The court date should be set soon. He'll kiss goodbye to his job, and then his mortgage and hopefully be forced into paying compensation which will pay for her holiday with my sister. A holiday she was forbidden from going on in the recent past.
With any luck he will realise that he cannot do this and seek help to change his ways. Though I remain skeptical that men like this can make the changes needed through self-discovery alone.
It's never easy to understand this and every case is different to the other. If 1 in 5 men believe slapping a woman is correct, then this country is in a very very sorry state indeed.
I have a friend going through this right at the moment. I have two others who have done so in the past. It is never a case of just growing up and "pulling themselves together".
It is also wrong to think of these women as stupid or ineffectual. None of my friends who have gone through this are either.
What you don't perhaps understand is that men who do this have often set a pattern in place which just escalates over time. It seldom happens that one day a mild mannered man flips his lid and lashes out. What happens is weeks, months, years even of conditioning. A cutting remark there, a gentle slap becomes a bit harder, a shove, a push, a kick up the arse, a punch... it is a slow escalation over time that breeds the acceptance of the violence that follows. This is all supported by callous manipulation and the destruction of a womans self-esteem and self-worth so in the end she feels entirely reliant on her abuser. He twists the love and trust she has in him to his own sadistic ends. Once he has achieved this, he can do what he likes.
Stick a frog in some hot water and he'll jump out immediately. Put him in cold water and slowly heat it up and he will remain in it until he dies. That is the difference.
Add into that a lot of women see what happens as somehow "their" fault. Their partner is only doing it for their benefit. This is slowly put to them time and time again so that when the abuse starts the person receiving the abuse actually believes it is their fault and what is happening is somehow natural. It sounds ludicrous but this is what happens. These women are not stupid, or victims. What they are is conditioned and manipulated and then abused.
Every single woman who I know who has suffered this has always said to me at some point "I thought it was my fault." They make excuses for their partner to rationalise what has happened. It makes no sense to an outside looking in. It makes perfect sense to them. That is why they go back. That and this fostered, warped sense of loyalty that the abuser has already planted in their psyche, that somehow what happens is for the womans own good, it isn't that he doesn't love her, but that he does it precisely because he DOES love her...so much in fact it hurts them both... her physically, him mentally.
Breaking the cycle can be as easy as walking away but it takes a very very brave woman to do that. Especially when she's been told she will be killed, or her children killed, or her family killed or maimed in some way. Especially if she has no place to go to, or indeed if she actually is in her home and he is just living with her. Especially if her family has a history of abuse... Sometimes it is a case of changing how a woman thinks first before she can break the cycle herself. It is about understanding her predicament and showing her the way out of it.
I only understand this because I've gone through it with two very close friends. I've sat up all night with one telling her word for word what to say to her abuser, telling her what to do and what not to do who was actually messaging her at the time. Incidentally if every you want a feeling of responsibility, try that out. Knowing if you get it wrong your friend is, at best, going to end up in hospital with her face mashed in and you are 60 miles away and powerless to do anything to stop it in time...Thankfully she, and my other friend are now happily and blissfully with someone else and have left the miserable, dark times behind them. Yes they can see the lunacy of what they believed at the time, but at the time, everything made sense to them.
As for the men who do this. They are worthless, servile, pathetic scum. When I went with my first friend to get him to sign legal documents regarding their house (which initially he had refused to sign because he still wanted contact with her). He didn't know I was coming. He answered the door to her with sneering contempt, only to suddenly turn on the charm when he realised I was with her. He could not have been more helpful. He signed the papers and she left immediately. He asked me if I wanted a drink. I just told him never to speak to me, or her, again or there would be consequences. And left it at that. That was 12 years ago.
I don't wish to sound the "Rambo" type, I could have beaten him to a bloody pulp. I'm a big, big chap, I've lifted the odd weight or six and done a fair bit of boxing. He was about 11 stone wet. But why don't I? Because if I do, I am no better than they are. Violence begets Violence. Far better to win the right way. Get her out, get her happy. Make him pay with loneliness, financial hardship and the realisation that he cannot get away with doing that. That, hopefully, lasts. Bruises and cuts fade, broken bones heal. It's lasted 12 years so far with one of my friends, 2 years with another and the process is just beginning with another. But she will get there, we'll make sure of it, and he will pay. The court date should be set soon. He'll kiss goodbye to his job, and then his mortgage and hopefully be forced into paying compensation which will pay for her holiday with my sister. A holiday she was forbidden from going on in the recent past.
With any luck he will realise that he cannot do this and seek help to change his ways. Though I remain skeptical that men like this can make the changes needed through self-discovery alone.
It's never easy to understand this and every case is different to the other. If 1 in 5 men believe slapping a woman is correct, then this country is in a very very sorry state indeed.
Quote by Dirtygirly
Good points there but..... I have picked up on something you said earlier on another thread.... " Maybe some will get the message that this site is predominantly for Swingers to have enjoyment and share a common bond.... ".
Does that statement not include a violence towards women thread, or only the ones you do not want to comment on? Sorry just a question.
I'd say violence towards women is a whole lot more relevant on a swinging site than the IRA! :mrgreen:
Could it be that because of the troubles in NI and the IRA, there are precious few Irish swingers in here?
does that put it back on track?
Sex God
Quote by kentswingers777
What about if the women hits them first??
very good point there Tan. I think this is one that many people overlook, and I am sure that more than one on five men would and do react with a blow when confronted by a woman who is flailing her arms and becoming violent.
Reasnonable self-defence surely has to be appropriate in such circumstances?
I think that it shouldnt be discounted just because one of the combatants is a woman.
I think the law itself in this country makes no-such distinction... although, wrongly, in my view, it pre-suposes that all male/female violence is domestic violence where the male has no "right" to raise his hand.
There is , I believe, only one surefire way to end a violent confrontation quickly, and that is to subdue ones opponent.
I feel that it is wrong to set an example or a benchmark to say that " you should never hit a woman!because it was and has been going on for generations in situations where it has been the ONLY solution.
Does it not give women some indication that they can do what they like to a man because there wont be any physical response... come off it.... that isnt equality is it? nor is it realistic, practical or the way of the world in general.
I say however, that If a man does react and he does effectively beat his female counterpart and injury then he only has himself to blame... because there are ways to prevent and control a person without losing control to the extent where there are real injury or numerous blows.
And before i get flamed... i just wish to point out that im simply saying there shouldnt be an out and out rule that male on female physical is improper... we all know of situations where it might have been appropriate.
Men who beat up their partners ( sometimes regularly), often infront of kids are lowlife scum who deserve and often do get their comeuppance for it.... I am not talking about them now...btw.
But if women strive for equality, and have in some way recieved it, they should be aware that if they wanna trade blows with a man, they will often come out second best.
Good points there but..... I have picked up on something you said earlier on another thread.... " Maybe some will get the message that this site is predominantly for Swingers to have enjoyment and share a common bond.... ".
Does that statement not include a violence towards women thread, or only the ones you do not want to comment on? Sorry just a question.
I'm baffled by this, if this is merely an attempt to 'score points' off someone else then I am quite shocked that this is the case. Very, very petty indeed.
I'm with Dirty Girly here too. This is certainly a more pertinent issue to swingers than anything politically motivated. We are perhaps more likely to come across a battered woman, than we are the real IRA I would venture. So if we are questioning the validity of postings and threads then certainly I would concur with Dirty Girly that this has far more relevance to us as swingers. As it is something we may encounter. Especially if one in five men think this is acceptable.
Quote by kentswingers777
What about if the women hits them first??
very good point there Tan. I think this is one that many people overlook, and I am sure that more than one on five men would and do react with a blow when confronted by a woman who is flailing her arms and becoming violent.
Reasnonable self-defence surely has to be appropriate in such circumstances?
I think that it shouldnt be discounted just because one of the combatants is a woman.
I think the law itself in this country makes no-such distinction... although, wrongly, in my view, it pre-suposes that all male/female violence is domestic violence where the male has no "right" to raise his hand.
There is , I believe, only one surefire way to end a violent confrontation quickly, and that is to subdue ones opponent.
I feel that it is wrong to set an example or a benchmark to say that " you should never hit a woman!because it was and has been going on for generations in situations where it has been the ONLY solution.
Does it not give women some indication that they can do what they like to a man because there wont be any physical response... come off it.... that isnt equality is it? nor is it realistic, practical or the way of the world in general.
I say however, that If a man does react and he does effectively beat his female counterpart and injury then he only has himself to blame... because there are ways to prevent and control a person without losing control to the extent where there are real injury or numerous blows.
And before i get flamed... i just wish to point out that im simply saying there shouldnt be an out and out rule that male on female physical is improper... we all know of situations where it might have been appropriate.
Men who beat up their partners ( sometimes regularly), often infront of kids are lowlife scum who deserve and often do get their comeuppance for it.... I am not talking about them now...btw.
But if women strive for equality, and have in some way recieved it, they should be aware that if they wanna trade blows with a man, they will often come out second best.
Good points there but..... I have picked up on something you said earlier on another thread.... " Maybe some will get the message that this site is predominantly for Swingers to have enjoyment and share a common bond.... ".
Does that statement not include a violence towards women thread, or only the ones you do not want to comment on? Sorry just a question.
surely thats a question for the thread in question...
the same one that has another member accuse you of posting just to wind people up.....
There are good points in my post because it is a clear well thought out piece of intelligent prose.
your post here completely illustrates the point he made and one which i recently made about you mis-using the forum.
touche.
sorry, 2 nil to moi.
Quote by Resonance
What about if the women hits them first??
very good point there Tan. I think this is one that many people overlook, and I am sure that more than one on five men would and do react with a blow when confronted by a woman who is flailing her arms and becoming violent.
Reasnonable self-defence surely has to be appropriate in such circumstances?
I think that it shouldnt be discounted just because one of the combatants is a woman.
I think the law itself in this country makes no-such distinction... although, wrongly, in my view, it pre-suposes that all male/female violence is domestic violence where the male has no "right" to raise his hand.
There is , I believe, only one surefire way to end a violent confrontation quickly, and that is to subdue ones opponent.
I feel that it is wrong to set an example or a benchmark to say that " you should never hit a woman!because it was and has been going on for generations in situations where it has been the ONLY solution.
Does it not give women some indication that they can do what they like to a man because there wont be any physical response... come off it.... that isnt equality is it? nor is it realistic, practical or the way of the world in general.
I say however, that If a man does react and he does effectively beat his female counterpart and injury then he only has himself to blame... because there are ways to prevent and control a person without losing control to the extent where there are real injury or numerous blows.
And before i get flamed... i just wish to point out that im simply saying there shouldnt be an out and out rule that male on female physical is improper... we all know of situations where it might have been appropriate.
Men who beat up their partners ( sometimes regularly), often infront of kids are lowlife scum who deserve and often do get their comeuppance for it.... I am not talking about them now...btw.
But if women strive for equality, and have in some way recieved it, they should be aware that if they wanna trade blows with a man, they will often come out second best.
Good points there but..... I have picked up on something you said earlier on another thread.... " Maybe some will get the message that this site is predominantly for Swingers to have enjoyment and share a common bond.... ".
Does that statement not include a violence towards women thread, or only the ones you do not want to comment on? Sorry just a question.
I'm baffled by this, if this is merely an attempt to 'score points' off someone else then I am quite shocked that this is the case. Very, very petty indeed.
I'm with Dirty Girly here too. This is certainly a more pertinent issue to swingers than anything politically motivated. We are perhaps more likely to come across a battered woman, than we are the real IRA I would venture. So if we are questioning the validity of postings and threads then certainly I would concur with Dirty Girly that this has far more relevance to us as swingers. As it is something we may encounter. Especially if one in five men think this is acceptable.
thats 1 in 5 adults
Sex God
Quote by Mr-Powers
thats 1 in 5 adults
Point taken, my mistake. I told you I talk pants most of the time anyway! ;-)
I'd be interested to know the proportion of women who think it is acceptable compared to men... but I shall remain unfulfilled... again! :-(
Quote by Resonance
thats 1 in 5 adults
Point taken, my mistake. I told you I talk pants most of the time anyway! ;-)
I'd be interested to know the proportion of women who think it is acceptable compared to men... but I shall remain unfulfilled... again! :-(
not a problem,even Kent got it wrong in his opening post!
Quote by Mr-Powers
thats 1 in 5 adults
Point taken, my mistake. I told you I talk pants most of the time anyway! ;-)
I'd be interested to know the proportion of women who think it is acceptable compared to men... but I shall remain unfulfilled... again! :-(
not a problem,even Kent got it wrong in his opening post!
And yet you call for less points scoring???
Quote by essex34m
thats 1 in 5 adults
Point taken, my mistake. I told you I talk pants most of the time anyway! ;-)
I'd be interested to know the proportion of women who think it is acceptable compared to men... but I shall remain unfulfilled... again! :-(
not a problem,even Kent got it wrong in his opening post!
And yet you call for less points scoring???
Maybe he was just showing the irony in it!!!
In the same way I did... to show the childish nature of the way people like Kent and GNV use these forums
Threads locked, members banned, rifts caused members leaving...and all one or two common denominators...
