Quote by Scandal
<---------------- Is that better Scandal?!
Very nice! :lickface: But not better than mine :grin:
:rotflmao: :rotflmao:You daft bugger!
Venusxxx
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Bisexuals suffer more from social isolation?
back to the football then.... 
Mike reminded me that issues like this are not just related to sex. Those that are partially disabled can suffer the same thing - exclusion from one world because they are physically unable to join in, excluded from the other world because they are 'not quite the full monty'. So perhaps it is unfair to focus too much on this being a sexual issue - it tends to crop up in all walks of life.
When I was a young soldier I was required to be straight, and act straight - with all that entailed, make the right disgusted noises, find the right jokes funny, watch the right videos, take the piss out of the right people - pro-actively and repeatedly prove by word and deed that I fitted in. Anyone remember Quentin Crisp - The Naked Civil Servant? There was no way I could have ever gone to work the next day and said "Did you see that film last night? It really made me think".
When I joined SH, I had the opportunity to review that early decision. To be fair, I came to the same conclusion. However, now I feel less pressure to 'act' like a straight man. If I want to flirt with a bloke, I do, if I want to get turned on by the pictures in Silkies - I can.
Choosing a lable has not meant having to surrender my own individuality. Perhaps those that turn their back on friends over this issue are doing just that, following the 'rules' as they see them.
lhk
Kat
Quote by MikeNorth
How cruel some people are in their attitudes. They should learn from the campaigns for people with disabilities that it's the person that counts, not the label.
Mike.
Mike reminded me that issues like this are not just related to sex. Those that are partially disabled can suffer the same thing - exclusion from one world because they are physically unable to join in, excluded from the other world because they are 'not quite the full monty'. So perhaps it is unfair to focus too much on this being a sexual issue - it tends to crop up in all walks of life.
When I was a young soldier I was required to be straight, and act straight - with all that entailed, make the right disgusted noises, find the right jokes funny, watch the right videos, take the piss out of the right people - pro-actively and repeatedly prove by word and deed that I fitted in. Anyone remember Quentin Crisp - The Naked Civil Servant? There was no way I could have ever gone to work the next day and said "Did you see that film last night? It really made me think".
When I joined SH, I had the opportunity to review that early decision. To be fair, I came to the same conclusion. However, now I feel less pressure to 'act' like a straight man. If I want to flirt with a bloke, I do, if I want to get turned on by the pictures in Silkies - I can.
Choosing a lable has not meant having to surrender my own individuality. Perhaps those that turn their back on friends over this issue are doing just that, following the 'rules' as they see them.
lhk
Kat
Quote by freckledbird
I think what I mean't to say is a lot of guys I have met expect the women to be bi and quite often they are not and are doing it just for their partners sake.I just find it really hypocritical. My wife actualy thinks there are very few bi women out there. She can tell you know Straight guys I have spoken to nearly always recoil in horror if I say I am bi. I actualy use it now if we are talking to a couple and we are not interested just to get out of the situation
Yeah I find they kind of give themselves away when they start to lick my pussy
Bev
xx
Or not as the case may be :lol: As my wife says straight women never go down :lol:
Sex God
Having recognised myself as bisexual since I was about 12, I'm surprised to say that I've never encountered any grief from anyone over it. The friends I had during my teens knew about it, but most of them were "alternative outcasts" in some form or another anyway - so we were all deemed unacceptable by the public at large!
When I got married for the first time at the age of 20, I put that part of myself into the closet. My wife knew that I'd had bi- experiences; but, due to the commitment of our marriage, we were both well aware that I'd never act upon it. Thus, apart from my occasional camp behaviour, we deliberately and successfully kept my sexual orientation from our mutual friends. Perhaps we weren't quite as successful as I'd thought, though, because, when she & I were splitting up after 17 years of marriage, a fair number of our friends commented to her, "You mean he's finally come out?!" :P
All of this changed when I met Vix. She was aware of my orientation from the outset of our relationship (in fact, she and her best friend originally thought that I was gay based upon a few of the early photos I'd shared with them!). Thus, for the first time since my teens, I decided it was time to "just be me"...thanks to the new-found comfort with myself and security that Vix had brought into my life.
This time, however, it wasn't merely restricted to our private relationship. Since we moved to our little village near Glastonbury, we've been totally up-front with everyone regarding both our sexuality and swinging (and, many of you know, Vix can be quite up-front!). ;) The level of acceptance we've received has been quite a pleasant surprise. Sure, they may talk behind our backs when we're not around, but who cares? No one's ever made a big deal about it, even when Vix & I bring our "dates" to the pub!
At our weekly pub quiz recently, Vix was bantering innuendo back and forth with a male acquaintance of ours when he suddenly went a bit blank. Vix then turned to me and asked, "Does he not know the games we play?" When I replied that he & I had never discussed it, she decided it best to go to the loo whilst I filled him in (as it were). I simply told him that we sometimes go out socially - be it with men, women or couples - then take them home and fuck them. He was speechless for a moment, but didn't bat an eyelid. If I'd said that to a bloke while we were living in Swindon, I'd probably not be alive today to tell the story! :shock:
So perhaps it's due to the unconventionality of where we live - I don't know - but I feel fortunate that I've not had to endure the persecution that seems to be so common toward such "alternative" folk as ourselves.
~Reese!
When I got married for the first time at the age of 20, I put that part of myself into the closet. My wife knew that I'd had bi- experiences; but, due to the commitment of our marriage, we were both well aware that I'd never act upon it. Thus, apart from my occasional camp behaviour, we deliberately and successfully kept my sexual orientation from our mutual friends. Perhaps we weren't quite as successful as I'd thought, though, because, when she & I were splitting up after 17 years of marriage, a fair number of our friends commented to her, "You mean he's finally come out?!" :P
All of this changed when I met Vix. She was aware of my orientation from the outset of our relationship (in fact, she and her best friend originally thought that I was gay based upon a few of the early photos I'd shared with them!). Thus, for the first time since my teens, I decided it was time to "just be me"...thanks to the new-found comfort with myself and security that Vix had brought into my life.
This time, however, it wasn't merely restricted to our private relationship. Since we moved to our little village near Glastonbury, we've been totally up-front with everyone regarding both our sexuality and swinging (and, many of you know, Vix can be quite up-front!). ;) The level of acceptance we've received has been quite a pleasant surprise. Sure, they may talk behind our backs when we're not around, but who cares? No one's ever made a big deal about it, even when Vix & I bring our "dates" to the pub!
At our weekly pub quiz recently, Vix was bantering innuendo back and forth with a male acquaintance of ours when he suddenly went a bit blank. Vix then turned to me and asked, "Does he not know the games we play?" When I replied that he & I had never discussed it, she decided it best to go to the loo whilst I filled him in (as it were). I simply told him that we sometimes go out socially - be it with men, women or couples - then take them home and fuck them. He was speechless for a moment, but didn't bat an eyelid. If I'd said that to a bloke while we were living in Swindon, I'd probably not be alive today to tell the story! :shock:
So perhaps it's due to the unconventionality of where we live - I don't know - but I feel fortunate that I've not had to endure the persecution that seems to be so common toward such "alternative" folk as ourselves.
~Reese!
Sex God
As my wife says straight women never go down
Neither do some straight men (yes, seriously).
Bev
xx
Quote by seagull69
I think what I mean't to say is a lot of guys I have met expect the women to be bi and quite often they are not and are doing it just for their partners sake.I just find it really hypocritical. My wife actualy thinks there are very few bi women out there. She can tell you know
So how does that explain the huge numbers of bisexual women who actually have sex with women because they like it? I never did it to please my ex husband, but I do it now I'm single!!!
Hmmmm, well it is a strange paradox -
on one hand I have been accused of not being a 'proper' bisexual by a gay man because I was (and still am) in a long term relationship with my bf. This made me very confused - as you dont just become 'gay' if you go out with the same sex or 'straight' if you go out with someone of the opposite sex - you are bisexual all the time.
But I have also heard straight people say the dont 'get' bisexuality - they find it hard to understand because you cant wake up one day a 'decide' you like girls and wake up the next day and 'decide' you like boys.
There always seems to be a problem with understanding the duality of bisexuality. People live in a world of classifcations - and we dont fit into a neat little box.
However, my personal experience is that bigots are bigots - whether lesbian, gay or straight - and you wll always come across them. Conversly - there will always be really cool funky people who will always accept you for who and what you are.
Human nature I suppose....
on one hand I have been accused of not being a 'proper' bisexual by a gay man because I was (and still am) in a long term relationship with my bf. This made me very confused - as you dont just become 'gay' if you go out with the same sex or 'straight' if you go out with someone of the opposite sex - you are bisexual all the time.
But I have also heard straight people say the dont 'get' bisexuality - they find it hard to understand because you cant wake up one day a 'decide' you like girls and wake up the next day and 'decide' you like boys.
There always seems to be a problem with understanding the duality of bisexuality. People live in a world of classifcations - and we dont fit into a neat little box.
However, my personal experience is that bigots are bigots - whether lesbian, gay or straight - and you wll always come across them. Conversly - there will always be really cool funky people who will always accept you for who and what you are.
Human nature I suppose....
Quote by seagull69
My wife actualy thinks there are very few bi women out there. She can tell you know
I have to disagree with you there. Our experience in clubs is that probably more than 80% of the women are bi and don't need any encouragement to play with each other. In fact sometimes they get too engrossed with each other. :twisted:
I don't think "going down" or not defines a bi-woman. If a woman plays with another woman, however little, then she is bi to some extent.
Quote by northwest-cpl
I don't think "going down" or not defines a bi-woman. If a woman plays with another woman, however little, then she is bi to some extent.
Hmm - interesting. I was once asked the following by a woman who identified as Lesbian - "At which point do you identify with being Lesbian. I have never had sex with a woman becuase i haven't yet found the right woman - but I do know that every fibre in my body is Lesbian". I couldn't answer her becuase I had defined myself in terms of sex rather than outlook. Made me think a lot.
I personally would not "label" a woman bisexual if she were experimenting and I was going down on them - with no reciprocation (me being one of those Lesbians that has no problem with women experimenting). After all -what difference is me going down on her any different from a bloke doing the same? I am talking from a purely sexual view here.
And can i just say - I do enjoy your input guys becuase you do always make me think! And ask more qustions. Thanks for that
Quote by Rainbows
I personally would not "label" a woman bisexual if she were experimenting and I was going down on them - with no reciprocation (me being one of those Lesbians that has no problem with women experimenting). After all -what difference is me going down on her any different from a bloke doing the same? I am talking from a purely sexual view here.
I think in the example you give that if she was experimenting then she would have to be bi-curious, surely.
As to the second point, what answer would you expect if you said to a straight guy that another guy sucking him would be no different to a woman doing it? If it's f*** **f, then I think a woman's answer could be the same.
My opinion is that if you play with both sexes then you are bi-sexual. Where you are on the continuum is probably more complicated though and I wouldn't like to get into that at this time of night.
:lol: :lol: Quote by Ghostie
Ah, but Ghostie, isn`t intolorance toward certain moralities or lack thereof........
Awwwwww fuckit, can`t be arsed to play devil`s advocate today! :giggle:
Venusxxx
Yes it is! Guilty as Charged M'lud
I should point out that my outburst has been fuelled not only by Kristofs post, but by many others too. am I the only one who thinks it's hypocrisy to be witch hunting "cheats" and having a poll in which 66% of the respondents admit to cheating?
You are not actually considering people, such as myself, who have cheated in the past, a long time ago, and admitted it in that poll, but actually regret what I did and would not do it again. Just because somebody has done something once does not mean they are never to be trusted. Sometimes it's naivety and stupidity which gets you into these situations. The key is to learn from them.
Quote by Ghostie
take me for who I am or get stuffed!
I agree %110 with you, I am straight, have been since I stared exploring sex, yet I am pretty sure there is a little of me thats bi-cur. one day I will explore that side of me, today tomorrow next year, who knows. But I cant ever be phobic about it, or say "you are wierd" to anybody because of their tastes, (unless its a peado in which case everybody knows what happens) gay, straight, lesbian, bi, so what, thats just a tag. If you like the person, then accept them for as they are, dont try to "cure their illness" because thats not being a friend, accept them.
Acceptance is the hardest thing to find anywhere, those who accept you for what you are are the people who will be the strongest friends in future. I am lucky I suppose, my family and close friends are very "liberated" because they accept people as people, non racist, sexist or any other "ist" for that matter, and that was how I was raised, the same way I have tried to raise my kids.
If I need help, I dont care if you are black, white, bent as a 9 bob note or straight as a die, same with friends. If acceptance of a person was more widespread then the world would be a happier place, in truth I pity those who cannot accept anything that differs from the norm.
A persons sexual orientation is nothing, its the person themself that counts
Forgive the thread hijack here, your apology thread aside, this is the most hypocritical turnaround I've seen in ages!! How dare you hound "married-but-cheating" people one day and spout live and let live the next!! In all the time I have been on this site I have never had recourse to respond in this way - but I'm incensed by this! Was your awakening from petty small mindedness really such an epiphany yesterday?
Ghostie, sexual orientation is completely different to the moral issue of married men cheating. This was probably the distinction kristoff was going by.
Venusxxx (not debating the dynamics of something already apologised for at all
)And I agree with you Venus - they do differ - it was this part (amongst others!) that inflamed!
"...If acceptance of a person was more widespread then the world would be a happier place, in truth I pity those who cannot accept anything that differs from the norm"
Ok looks like I was a little unlclear in my post, I did not intend to be a hypocite in any way, I was talking purely about the sexual orientation of a person, not about their morals or lack of or even percieved lack of, simply about sexual orientation, obviously I failed to make myself clear enough in the 1st post, I hope that this 2nd will make it clearer
I've not really noticed a problem, myself (although I do tend to ecercise extreme caution about who I tell I'm bi), I wonder if this is at least because I tend to move in heterosexual social circles, and the hetero community isn't an 'opressed minoritiy' and doesn't tend to label people as 'for us or against us' in the way that the gay community sometimes seems to? (Daily Mail readers excepted, of course!).
I'll try to avoid my usual rant here of "lack of social equality between BiM and BiF" and focus on something else for a change...
Of all the people who know that I'm bisexual, the two weirdest responses have been from my boss at work, and an old college friend.
1: Boss.
Fairly young chap, and as such has acquired the modern speech tendencies to identify anything bad or unsatisfactory as being "gay." For example: "The TV's Broken! That's so GAY!" Weird, huh? Weirder still, though, is that whenever he utters this strange term, he then immediately turns to me and appologises for saying it, assuming I'll be offended.
Uh, right...
2: College Peer.
Young Gay Male. Once he'd finally accepted the fact that I was bisexual (took a long time to get his head around it), wanted to know why I woulnd't go out with him or, at the very least sleep with him. Aside from him just "not being my type," he couldn't understand when I pointed out "I'm bi-SEXUAL, not bi-ROMANTIC"
Sorry, pal, but although I find (some) men sexually attractive, I would/could not "go out with" or enter into a romantic relationship with them. Don't know why, just couldn't. And just because I wear the label, does that mean I have to be a universal uber-slut? I don't think so. I have never asked out a blonde woman in my life, simply because I am more attracted to brunettes/redheads - should there be a seperate label for that? No.
It's all a confusing morass of notions, names and thoughts floating around with no real link between what people think, say or believe.
I guess we just have to deal with it...
Of all the people who know that I'm bisexual, the two weirdest responses have been from my boss at work, and an old college friend.
1: Boss.
Fairly young chap, and as such has acquired the modern speech tendencies to identify anything bad or unsatisfactory as being "gay." For example: "The TV's Broken! That's so GAY!" Weird, huh? Weirder still, though, is that whenever he utters this strange term, he then immediately turns to me and appologises for saying it, assuming I'll be offended.
Uh, right...
2: College Peer.
Young Gay Male. Once he'd finally accepted the fact that I was bisexual (took a long time to get his head around it), wanted to know why I woulnd't go out with him or, at the very least sleep with him. Aside from him just "not being my type," he couldn't understand when I pointed out "I'm bi-SEXUAL, not bi-ROMANTIC"
Sorry, pal, but although I find (some) men sexually attractive, I would/could not "go out with" or enter into a romantic relationship with them. Don't know why, just couldn't. And just because I wear the label, does that mean I have to be a universal uber-slut? I don't think so. I have never asked out a blonde woman in my life, simply because I am more attracted to brunettes/redheads - should there be a seperate label for that? No.
It's all a confusing morass of notions, names and thoughts floating around with no real link between what people think, say or believe.
I guess we just have to deal with it...
Oh I'm so interested in this stuff! I'll offer my bit and then I want to do every such a naughty hijack and ask a favour...
I've never had sex with a girl, but I too know to my core that i love them . And I love boys. And I am in love with one man and have a monogomous relationship. Joyfully for me, when I came out to him a few months ago (my first ever coming out), we came to a mutual agreement to let me have a little play (him too), as long as it doesn't get too intense. The rationale being I suppose that it won't harm us and will only bring me joy to experience this beautiful thing that I've always dreamt of. As a bi girl, the only place I seem to be able to to be honest about this is in the swinger world. I am not cheating, lying, demanding or in need of anything but my boyfriend, yet I know I would be judged.
Bisexuality has no public space and is massively misunderstand and untolerated. Even when I came out to one of my friends and I was running for a post in the uni LGBT society, she said 'but will they accept you, you know as a straight person?'. Hello???? Made me wonder why we bother when people don't hear us...
OK - my hijack is this...I am doing a masters project on how people who are attracted in any romantic or sexual way to both sexes (or transgender) talk about themselves. I can supply more details but am in desperate need of people to participate who are older than 25. The older the better really. If anyone has any interest in taking part in this, I'd LOVE to hear from you. Please IM me for more info.
(sorry!) x
I've never had sex with a girl, but I too know to my core that i love them . And I love boys. And I am in love with one man and have a monogomous relationship. Joyfully for me, when I came out to him a few months ago (my first ever coming out), we came to a mutual agreement to let me have a little play (him too), as long as it doesn't get too intense. The rationale being I suppose that it won't harm us and will only bring me joy to experience this beautiful thing that I've always dreamt of. As a bi girl, the only place I seem to be able to to be honest about this is in the swinger world. I am not cheating, lying, demanding or in need of anything but my boyfriend, yet I know I would be judged.
Bisexuality has no public space and is massively misunderstand and untolerated. Even when I came out to one of my friends and I was running for a post in the uni LGBT society, she said 'but will they accept you, you know as a straight person?'. Hello???? Made me wonder why we bother when people don't hear us...
OK - my hijack is this...I am doing a masters project on how people who are attracted in any romantic or sexual way to both sexes (or transgender) talk about themselves. I can supply more details but am in desperate need of people to participate who are older than 25. The older the better really. If anyone has any interest in taking part in this, I'd LOVE to hear from you. Please IM me for more info.
(sorry!) x
Sex God
Quote by xxdevil69
That quote made so much sense, Rainbows!!
Having gone from being a 'lesbian' and fitting in with that lifestyle, the moment it emerged that I was in fact (OMG) bisexual.. I suddenly lost a lot of people I thought were friends.. Now this didn't really bother me too much, because people like that aren't worth getting upset over. What I did miss was my nights out, I could no longer go somewhere and feel comfortable with who I am. If I carried on going to the village, I was outcast unless I carried on the pretense that I was a lesbian, and in straight clubs I had to pretend I was straight
Where's all the 'bisexual' hotspots eh?
listen xxdevil69 you feckin well know where we fit in it's at blue and satins parties roll on the 12th March lol
Sex God
Quote by EasyTeep
he couldn't understand when I pointed out "I'm bi-SEXUAL, not bi-ROMANTIC"
Sorry, pal, but although I find (some) men sexually attractive, I would/could not "go out with" or enter into a romantic relationship with them...
fuckin hell lad drive that fuckin sledge hammer and hit the nail on the head for most of us it is as u say
sure i do it just for the hell of it and the enjoyment of all including me
all i can say is 'to hell or to bed with openminded ppl for i'm sure they will both be good parties
It isn't the sex that makes bi-sexuality difficult, nor do I think it's necessarily mixing in either group since I don't generally go to work or to the the pub to find sex. Personally I'm more "bi" in life than in bed, (where I'm only a little wanker, probably 80% hetero and 20% gay), but feeling somewhat uncomfortable in heavily hetero male groups and also in heavily gay ones. Where that leaves me I'm not sure.
It also comes into the nature/nurture debate because in "real life" I don't consider myself a person who lives on the margins, nurture has me full in the middle of middle class England, the things that a middle class Englishman likes are the things that I like. There's a real prospect of falling in between everyones stools unless you ally yourself to a particular group, and so I'm allied to Waitrose, the Public Library, pubs with real fires, Italian restaurants and the Conservative Party, but I have this fucking little secret that gets in the way.
However the real problem for a long and happy life would seem to be how to find a lifetime partnership that will sit comfortably in this bi role. I have left this a bit late! Us against the world is a much easier place than me against the world. Vix and Reese are lucky to have found that, but it's beyond the realm of general dating opportunities. When did you find a web site that asked you if you were a "man seeking a man or a woman"? And personally anyway I'd always be seeking a woman, but hopefully a bi woman.
It also comes into the nature/nurture debate because in "real life" I don't consider myself a person who lives on the margins, nurture has me full in the middle of middle class England, the things that a middle class Englishman likes are the things that I like. There's a real prospect of falling in between everyones stools unless you ally yourself to a particular group, and so I'm allied to Waitrose, the Public Library, pubs with real fires, Italian restaurants and the Conservative Party, but I have this fucking little secret that gets in the way.
However the real problem for a long and happy life would seem to be how to find a lifetime partnership that will sit comfortably in this bi role. I have left this a bit late! Us against the world is a much easier place than me against the world. Vix and Reese are lucky to have found that, but it's beyond the realm of general dating opportunities. When did you find a web site that asked you if you were a "man seeking a man or a woman"? And personally anyway I'd always be seeking a woman, but hopefully a bi woman.
Quote by EasyTeep
"I'm bi-SEXUAL, not bi-ROMANTIC"
Sorry, pal, but although I find (some) men sexually attractive, I would/could not "go out with" or enter into a romantic relationship with them. Don't know why, just couldn't. And just because I wear the label, does that mean I have to be a universal uber-slut? I don't think so.
That is a darn good point. I guess it's a bit like assuming asexual people aren't interested in relationships, but the other way round...
This poses a nice complicated question: what are we saying when we say bisexual? There are people (esp women I think) who fall for women on an emotional level first and then grow to be attracted to them and are attracted to men so are bi but get different things from the genders. There are people who would have a rel with one sex and fuck the other. There are people who don't really see gender but are just attracted to people.
This is why no one understands us easily when we say bi. They don't know which version we mean and mix them up and get confused. It's no wonder people just rely on stereotypes in stead as it saves time! I heard some one call bisexuality a 'residual category' in that it refers to all the people who don't fit into straight or gay but are a diverse, non categorical group. I think that makes sense as 'bi' clearly means something different to us all...
Casanova
I have never had any problems with being Bi, of course I dont tell anyone in RL, so that could be why. I see it as "the best of both worlds" and it just means when I get drunk I flirt with anything with a pulsre (and even a few that were doubtful). I have no problem with confusion, perhaps when I was a teenager I wondered if the scales would tip one way or the other (libran), but now I know I could be thrown in a barrel full of swingers and I would be happy coming up sucking anything other than my thumb.
Quote by Vix
so I'm allied to .... the Conservative Party
PERVERT
Won't do Vix, won't do, the least I deserve is your whip.
Sorry. I guess you're right. You 'come out' as a Tory and I was shocked and a little horrified, TBH. I am doing my best to overcome my prejudice, but it's not easy.
If it helps at all my current view is that nobody deserves my vote, they're all a lot of grasping no goods, but time for a change "yes", and time for some new faces, "yes".
