Bluexxx,
Appalled by what you wrote - and we would never visit a club that had that attitude. By doing what they did they denied you a basic human right and should be both told and corrected.
Personally I would like to see them named and shamed - We would never visit such a place!
Fred
This sounds outrageous to me. I have never yet been to a club but I would certainly have expected that 'no means no' absolutely anyhwere. bluexxx also raises good points about dogging. I am sure that the same should also apply to parties. Even at a full-blown orgy 'no' ought to mean 'no' - with no questions asked and no need for justification.
We are the sole controllers of our own bodies - and no-one else. The fact that some people have a more liberal attitude and are happy to have more than one sexual partner does not mean that they have forfeited the right to any veto whatsoever. As bluexxx says, the more one thinks about it the more bizarre it sounds.
I am sorry you suffered such an incident (and yes, you should have kicked him in the balls!) and shocked that such an attitude can exist. Especially in a club where they ought to be concerned that everyone must be able to play safely and within their own self-defined limits.
The idea that any woman in a club (and I dare say this attitude would only apply to women) is fair game for anyone is truly apalling. That the manager was female makes it even more incomprehensible.
Stunned!
Totally agree with what has been posted above and also agree that the club should be named and shamed, even if its to interested parties in a PM. As club goers we would NOT want to visit a club where the Management have such an outrageous attitude towards the swinging etiquette and its own club members.
I have just given some thought to this matter and have let my views be known to Bluexxx in a PM.
I do hope she takes it because I think this matter is so serious that it needs representing to the club directly - Mark are you prepared to forward on to the club the feelings of the site users? If so I think Bluexxx needs to follow this up.
Fred
I have to agree - this is so outrageous that it should be made known. What else is the Clubs and Parties thing for?
Women (yes, and men) should be safe in a safe environment and the club scene has always been 'advertised' as that - now one place is turning the rules upside down and condoning non-consensual sexual activity. Against the law and against all usual club regulations.
Hugs to Bluexxx
Absolutely outrageous. If that policy were generally known, I think they'd quickly find themselves with very few members.
I think you should give them the opportunity to rethink their policies before you name and shame - a wider range of safe clubbing environments has to be better for everyone.
The guy should be the one who was banned. Failure to understand "no means no" makes a person very undesirable to be around.
I am so very sorry you were treated this way. To be violated in this manner is an offence by law regardless of the nature of the club you were at. As for a court of law not being sympathetic, you may be suprised.
I would like to know exactly what their rules state. :small-print:
You may have a very good case.
My best wishes are with you.
Love and hugs
Wilma
x x x x
That is really poor. So for example if my self and my other half were there to have a look round to get a feel for things and see how it all works (we are very new to all this) then going by the manager there we would be expected to allow anyone to touch us etc
From my point of view this is the sort of place I would avoid especially being so new to it all.
I think that we needs more clubs with a more open approach that understand that not everyone wants a full on swing.
I guess we all live and learn. Shame we have to learn by mistakes though
Thats exactly the point of name and shame, if newbies like yourselves were to stumble into whichever this club was, you may be put off for life and think that those of us who say that clubs are a non threatening environment were talking a load of rubbish.
Where would all the trust go then??
Have you considered that the young mans social problem may have been as a direct result of the clubs "code of conduct" ?
If so, and I don't really like to say this but, naming the club will only result in an increase of "members"
Believe me, there are a LOT of people out there who WILL practice what the club preaches.
Ask practically every woman who is a regular club-goer....that behaviour is far from unknown in ordinary club-land.
Many times I have heard of sexual refusal being followed by physical violence "she needs a slapping" being a phrase I've heard quite a few times.
You're probably right, Jomu...
But the point is that a club full of socially inept young men without women being present (and let's not confine this to either the hetero population or women) isn't a safety problem, is it?
If a club wants to attract louts then let them have louts... but lets warn decent, sane folks about the risks of particular clubs.
Hxx
I've not read all the replies but am horrified there is a club with such an attitiude.
Is there some way bluexxx can write a review. Maybe Swinging Heaven can approach the club officially and ask them their policy. If it is officially as bluexxx was treated then let us all know, remove it from our links and warn people this is not the norm to be expected.
Bluexxx we would appreciate a pm letting us know the name of this club so as we can avoid it in new year.
thanks
Billy
I think that a word with the management about the criminal offence which took place may be more appropriate.
Blue may even wish to have a solicitor send a strongly worded missive in their direction.
I wonder how many others have been the subject of unwanted attention there ?
Whichever way you look at it, several indecent assaults took place.
Any person has the absolute right to say "no" and have their wishes respected.
A prostitute has the right to say "no" and the law will expect a "punter" to do what the lady/man wishes.
As for the "socially inept young men"............the ratio of women being by men, and men being by men is reckoned to be 1:1.
She should have rendered him "hours de combat"
Quite frankly this whole topic beggers belief.....and I for one cannot understand why there is even debate......Sure we live in a democracy but frankly this Manager/proprietor appears to have an attitude not far short of one of Saddam Husseins hence men....
To me the answer is simple......inform the appropriate persons as to why....then name and shame in order to hit these people where it hurts
Maybe then, someone will be prepared to change these attitudes
We assume from Blue's location that this happened at a Manchester club. We are very regular club users and are both horrified to hear of this incident. We rarely go to mixed club nights now because of the poor behaviour of some singles, but have always expected the management to support the lady if a problem ever became serious. This club should be named so that people can avoid it in the future. Without couples and fems a swingers club becomes a gay club.
Ric n Jax xx
As our 'name ' suggests we are newbies..however we did try a couple of years ago to experiment with a bit of fun at a well known spa in kenning town,nw london. Suffice it to say that the actions of some of the 'clientel' towards my other half - while not as drastic as those experienced by bluexxx- were enough for sue to veto any 'extra curricular' activities for all this time...even though the 'gentlemen' in question did stop when she told them to!
I feel that in order to protect future visitors to the establishment concerned that the moderators should name and shame...or if not would bluexxx pm us with the clubs name so that should we progress to visiting clubs we know where not to go!
Bluexxx...you should have let him have it in the nuts
Bluexxx
We really would be interested to hear why you haven't named and shamed them, after all they deserve nothing less. You may have good reasons not to post.
This forum is for the members of Swinging Heaven and judging by the comments so far it would appear that most are interested to know which club it is.
I know this isn't PC but if we had been in that situation and someone did that to Sue I MAY have been tempted to do more than kick his glass even though at the end of the day it is in our opinion the clubs fault, as someone has already said, he may be like this because the club allows it.
I think people are wrong to suggest that Bluexxx should have taken any action other than she did. Had she reshuffled his family jewels instead of wasting his beer then it would have been considered unreasonable force, she would have acted outside of the law and could have been charged with one or more of the numerous offences against the person despite the fact that the mitigation would have been "an element of self defence".
A sexual assault took place and for that the guy could have been charged, irrespective of the setting and surroundings in which it happened.
Whilst I understand that feelings run high in these types of situations , it is very easy to end up being the person on the wrong end of the law.
Cooling his ardour by spilling his beer seemed about right! He probably had the mental capacity that would have meant he felt no pain if she had kicked him in the nuts anyway. He probably cried for an hour at the loss of the beer!
Fred
Blue, you have got to "name and shame" before andyone else gets treated in this way. not to do so is to let the club off its responsabilities and remember the next woman who this happens to may not be as capable of deffending herself as you were!!!
Will
I think I am more enraged by your last posting than by the report of the initall incident. Obvioulsy you are male and have no idea of how it would have felt to be in Blues position, you also seem to fail to see how this incident could happen again and how it could be repeated in society!!
Ok there may be legal problems if Blue was to just come out and name the club outright but Im sure we are well versed enough to know that there are ways round this.
The club needs to be made public for serious reasons that have wide implications
bluexxx,
I'd just like to add my own thoughts to those that have gone before. I am absolutely disgusted that you had to endure this type of treatment. My wife and I are just at the starting point of checking out this scene and this disturbs me - not particularly from my point of view but from hers.
What you're talking about is basically "legalised ". Had you not had the bottle to deal with the lout the situation could have been even more horredous for you. I totally commend you for your actions and totally condemn the management of the club in question.
I do tend to agree that "naming and shaming" may not be a good idea - purely from your own point of view. I don't think the libel / slander laws differ too much between Scotland and England but should the club go after you it would simply add insult to injury. Better, as you say, to spread the word by PM and personal contact.
At the end of the day, bluexxx, I'm right behind you as are all your other friends - whether you've met them or not - on this site.
Take care.
8)
UPDATE:
Mark has now spoken to the manager of the club concerned and has got their side of the story. The manager stated that they DO have a no means no policy (phew!), but they also have a no-violence policy too. I was asked to leave the club because, by their policies, reacting to an advance in any way that could be construed as violence is not acceptable. The manager was under the impression that I had actually kicked the guy, not his glass, and we could probably debate for ages whether kicking someone's glass (whilst they were holding it) is violent, or indeed too violent a response to an advance of that type. The manager was also under the impression that the guy has touched my leg, and that my reaction was towards a leg-touch, rather than a more personal one.
The upshot is, is that the club DO respond to consent issues, and they do have security to deal with confrontations of this sort. In fairness to the club, I think if I had reported the incident to the staff they would have responded in a more favourable way than they did, as I took the matter into my own hands (or foot, to be accurate!).
Therefore, for club-goers, the situation becomes this: the club concerned (and I dare say other clubs too) prefer people to report incidents to them rather than people sorting it out themselves. My personal view on this is that that is a good idea in the main. However, sometimes situations arise where an immediate response to a non-consensual touch does happen. I guess it is human nature to feel like you need to defend yourself in a situation where you feel threatened. In any situation though, it becomes an issue about how that defense should take place. In clubs, I think club management do need to be aware that customers WILL occassionally take offense at guys who push their luck, and situations such as this will arise. If the same situation happened to me in the future, I probably would react in the same way again (therefore I have learned nothing!), but I can understand too how clubs might not want their customers behaving in that way!
Therefore the issue is still about attitudes about what is accepatble in clubs, and also more generally. There are legal as well as moral issues here that everyone needs to think about. Bloody hell, my brain is aching, I'm going for a lie down!
:x :x 
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)
- and give 'em hell from all of us.