I totally agree with you
My dad was a alcholic and was flatly refused a transplant because they said his illness was self inflicted, which i do agree with, but if you have money you can buy body parts, abuse them and just buy another, if i was the parents of the person who died and saved his life i would be descused by the way he is just abusing his second chance, i know its each to their own and what you do with your body is your biz etc but its not his body part hes abusing its someone elses and their family have been kind enough to save his life and hes just abusing it, because i dare say he has the attitude of...ahhh i can buy another, maybe he should have to wait on the NHS like the rest of us for his next one.
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George best and transplant??
Orgasminator
Quote by naughtynymphos1
maybe he should have to wait on the NHS like the rest of us for his next one.
Actually he did wait in the queue for his donor liver, as buying and selling organs is illegal in the UK, and he had to be dry for a full year before they'd consider him a suitable candidate for a transplant. It does sound from the news reports like his donor liver is struggling, but he's far too ill to be a suitable candidate for a second transplant, so the issue won't arise.
As for his well reported drinking after his transplant, there were only a couple of episodes that have been seized on by the tabloid media. Although it is certainly inadvisable for him to drink any amount of alcohol, he's an alcoholic, and fell off the wagon. The fact that he's lived so long is an indication that even if he's relapsed a couple of times, mostly he's stayed off the booze. His current problem is that the anti-rejection drugs he's been taking work by suppressing the immune system, leaving him vulnerable to infections that healthy people would hardly notice or not get in the first place.
Master of Sex
I cosidered posting a thread on the subject earlier, 2 things stopped me - unsure of peoples reactions to it, and that we don't really know all the facts about his condition at the moment. Seems to be a lot of illnesses around and we don't know if its one of these made worse by his poor immune system, or whether he's back in hospital due to the alcohol.
I agree with alot of the above, but do have to say his current illness is nothing to do with his excessive drinking. The drugs he is on to help him accept the new organ, leave him open to virus and infection, and this is what has actually happened. I do hope he gets better, as at 58 he still has some living to do, and then maybe he mends his ways and moderates his ways.
Sex God
hhhhhmmmmmmmmm!!!!!!
well i've missed the details, but seems george is on his way out as far as i can tell, and yep he's going to an early grave cos of the alcohol addiction . . . .
but, a few weeks back when he was checked in, the doctors interviewed were adamant that his illness was NOT related to his liver transplant, and WAS not related to his relapse?
maybe that's changed, i don't know, but i do know he received no preferential treatment whatsoever, and had to prove himself worthy of consideration, like all alcoholics in need of a liver.
my uncle used to run the pub opposite Elland Road, knew all the footballers in the late 70's / early 80's, knew all the geezers in the terraces, hung out with some hard-playing, hard-drinking fellas, and no surprise, he became an alcoholic.
he spent YEARS on non-alcoholic lagers, even though he earned his living working behind a bar, and had to go to hell and back, and knocked on death's door many many times before he was considered for a transplant. sadly, even though the liver worked perfectly, the surgery necessary to transplant him failed, and he died a truly awful death. i won't go into detail, but i watched the man die for 8 weeks.
:cry:
but . . . . he earned the right to his transplant, despite being an alcoholic, and had it turned out ok he would have lived for a few more years and done what he always did, which was to love his family unconditionally, and give as much as he was able, and give more than he could afford, cos he was a great man!
alcoholism is a terrible, evil, soul destroying disease, and like all those suffering from disease, the NHS is there to offer whatever cures are available to it.
so what if george went back to the drink? that's what an addiction is! but to get the chance he had to fight his addiction, and struggle more than most people can ever understand.
neil x x x x
well i've missed the details, but seems george is on his way out as far as i can tell, and yep he's going to an early grave cos of the alcohol addiction . . . .
but, a few weeks back when he was checked in, the doctors interviewed were adamant that his illness was NOT related to his liver transplant, and WAS not related to his relapse?
maybe that's changed, i don't know, but i do know he received no preferential treatment whatsoever, and had to prove himself worthy of consideration, like all alcoholics in need of a liver.
my uncle used to run the pub opposite Elland Road, knew all the footballers in the late 70's / early 80's, knew all the geezers in the terraces, hung out with some hard-playing, hard-drinking fellas, and no surprise, he became an alcoholic.
he spent YEARS on non-alcoholic lagers, even though he earned his living working behind a bar, and had to go to hell and back, and knocked on death's door many many times before he was considered for a transplant. sadly, even though the liver worked perfectly, the surgery necessary to transplant him failed, and he died a truly awful death. i won't go into detail, but i watched the man die for 8 weeks.
:cry:but . . . . he earned the right to his transplant, despite being an alcoholic, and had it turned out ok he would have lived for a few more years and done what he always did, which was to love his family unconditionally, and give as much as he was able, and give more than he could afford, cos he was a great man!
alcoholism is a terrible, evil, soul destroying disease, and like all those suffering from disease, the NHS is there to offer whatever cures are available to it.
so what if george went back to the drink? that's what an addiction is! but to get the chance he had to fight his addiction, and struggle more than most people can ever understand.
neil x x x x
Quote by neilinleeds
alcoholism is a terrible, evil, soul destroying disease, and like all those suffering from disease, the NHS is there to offer whatever cures are available to it.
but that depends on who you are, for jo blogg's nobodys like my father the only help he was given was tablets to help with the pain and the number for the AA, even when he was bright yellow and on deaths door no op was offered to him, it wasn't even a possability as his illness was self inflicted they said, now ok i am going back a few years now and maybe their rules have changed but then they did not offer transplants to people who's illness was self inflicted.
Sex God
Quote by naughtynymphos1
alcoholism is a terrible, evil, soul destroying disease, and like all those suffering from disease, the NHS is there to offer whatever cures are available to it.
but that depends on who you are, for jo blogg's nobodys like my father the only help he was given was tablets to help with the pain and the number for the AA, even when he was bright yellow and on deaths door no op was offered to him, it wasn't even a possability as his illness was self inflicted they said, now ok i am going back a few years now and maybe their rules have changed but then they did not offer transplants to people who's illness was self inflicted.
NN, i know nowt about your fathers situation, so this is not really in reply to you! hope you don't think this is about you or your father?
it doesn't depend on who you are. it depends on whether you are prepared to address your illness. if someone critically in need of a transplant continues to drink, then quite rightly, a transplant will be denied them, cos the chances of keeping them alive, as opposed to some who has chosen not to drink anymore, are slim. treatment is only available to those who have PROVED themselves worthy of it.
i've had a bit of a right old sob reading this thread, cos it really incenses me when people moralise about subjects like this!
heart disease is self-inflicted. lung cancer is self-inflicted. obesity and cholesterol and high blood pressure are self-inflicted. mental illness and psychosis resulting from drug abuse are self-inflicted. heroin addiction is self-inflicted. cervical cancer is related to sexual activity, so every woman who's ever had sex has left themselves wide open to cancer, which is self-inflicted? going down with some non-descript pain at work, being carved open to reveal tumour upon tumour upon tumour, and dying 4 weeks later, is self-inflicted! pretty much every major illness you care to mention is self-inflicted?
and so . . . given that they are ALL self-inflicted, should we withdraw treatment at public expense to keep people alive, even though there's a good chance that the treatment will fail or be undone by further self-inflicted damage?
i think not! if there's a shortage of organs and competition means some more worthy recipient is denied a transplant, well it ain't the selection process that's at fault. rather it's the fact that there is simply a chronic shortage of donors, and clinical need means that some will get life saving treatment, some will get it but still die a horrible death, and some will never get the chance and die regardless.
neil x x x x
Neilinleeds
Thanks for those top class posts. I've read a fair bit on this subject in recent weeks and that is the best view of it I have come across. Very moving and very true - good on you, fella! I'm saddened to hear what happened to your father. Like you, I have seen these deaths first-hand and wouldn't wish it on anyone. :cry:
Thanks for those top class posts. I've read a fair bit on this subject in recent weeks and that is the best view of it I have come across. Very moving and very true - good on you, fella! I'm saddened to hear what happened to your father. Like you, I have seen these deaths first-hand and wouldn't wish it on anyone. :cry:
Mr best persists to live life to the full and take no notice of any advice given. He's been lucky and been given another chance so what does he do? He goes back onto the piss and now hes ill again.....
Does he deserve any sympathy? Well he doesnt get any from me and whilst we all have to wait for operations and transplants people like him get seen to at once!!! Money talks!! (not everyone has the choice to go private!)
I believe in this life you make your own bed and have to lay in it!!
Mr goodtimez
Does he deserve any sympathy? Well he doesnt get any from me and whilst we all have to wait for operations and transplants people like him get seen to at once!!! Money talks!! (not everyone has the choice to go private!)
I believe in this life you make your own bed and have to lay in it!!
Mr goodtimez
Sex God
Quote by goodtimez
Does he deserve any sympathy? Well he doesnt get any from me and whilst we all have to wait for operations and transplants people like him get seen to at once!!! Money talks!! (not everyone has the choice to go private!)
no no no no!
you CANNOT buy a liver in the UK! even if you go to a private clinic, the liver comes through the NHS, and all the same criteria have to be met! there is NO queue jumping, even for media celebs like George Best!
have a think about the nature of addiction. the addict has brought himself to the brink of death, has been miraculously saved thanks to surgical / medical advances, and suddenly has a new lease of life. it would be a VERY bold person who could promise in those circumstances, never, ever to drink again, given that they have escaped a death sentence in one sense, but still have the prospect of an early grave hanging over them! NOONE can say how they would act in those circumstances, unless you're there!
this is just MHO, but NOONE has a right to an opinion on addiction, or has the understanding to moralise on the subject, unless they have been through an addiction themselves, or seen the process first hand. articles in the NOTW do not truth make!
and, it's still not clear that George's current need for treatment is down to a relapse, so moralising on the subject, and passing judgement, without full posession of the relevant facts, is a tad poor. it's easy to make sweeping, generalised statements when you ain't been there!
I believe in this life you make your own bed and have to lay in it!!
indeed! but then to err is human, to forgive divine? i don't believe in God, but there but for the grace of God go us all!
neil x x x x ;)
Sex God
The transplant cured him of the effects of alcoholism.
It didn't cure him of the addiction, and nobody thought it would.
While I don't condone what many see as deliberate abuse, I don't condemn it either. The man's a drug addict, and I don't think those of us who have never been there can pass judgement.
It didn't cure him of the addiction, and nobody thought it would.
While I don't condone what many see as deliberate abuse, I don't condemn it either. The man's a drug addict, and I don't think those of us who have never been there can pass judgement.
Sex God
Quote by seagull69
ah!apologies for making a sweeping generalisation meself. sorry!
neil x x x
Quote by PrincessSwallows
Also i may add, lung cancer is NOT self-inflicted.
If it's caused by smoking it is, as much as alcohol induced illnesses.
George best like any other person had the righ to a transplant but he has no right to abuse his second chance at life (my opinion)
It's quite likely that his addiction gave him little choice as to whether he abused his chance or not. The alcoholic that I knew very, very well would, in her rational moments, have liked nothing better than to give up. Unfortunately alcoholism is a diseae that often takes choice away and is frequently fatal.
Quote by PrincessSwallows
But as I said Lung cancer is not always self-inflicted but it very often is though , I am saying george best gave himself liver disease thru alcohol abuse right?
And careless drivers give themselves paraplegia, gluttons give themselves heart disease ... where do we stop with people's "right" to treatment? He fulfilled the criteria for a transplant at the time he was given it. Unfortunately he has relapsed several times since, but an addict is never cured ... "one day at a time." If he had control of his actions with regard to alcohol would he seriously ask for a death sentence to be reimposed?
Quote by neilinleeds
Does he deserve any sympathy? Well he doesnt get any from me and whilst we all have to wait for operations and transplants people like him get seen to at once!!! Money talks!! (not everyone has the choice to go private!)
no no no no!
you CANNOT buy a liver in the UK! even if you go to a private clinic, the liver comes through the NHS, and all the same criteria have to be met! there is NO queue jumping, even for media celebs like George Best!
I didnt mean buying a liver, I ment if youv'e got a few quid then you would be looked after a little more and quicker than if you had nowt and was on the bread line!! Like I said some people dont have an option and some people dont know they are born!!
this is just MHO, but NOONE has a right to an opinion on addiction, or has the understanding to moralise on the subject, unless they have been through an addiction themselves, or seen the process first hand. articles in the NOTW do not truth make!
I only read the sport in the rags!!! dont do liars lol the headlines etc are to sell papers not tell the truth!!!
Cheers Neil for input
Mr goodtimez
Quote by HuxleyNSusie
possibly a bit too simplistic comparison but suicide is self inflicted wouldn't you try to save someone taking an overdose no matter how many times they had tried before ?
but the thing is people who try and commit suiicide usually suffer from some kind of mental illness or have suffered a great ordeal in their life that they can no longer cope with, its not really the same as someone who has chosen to smoke or drink, we know the risks and we make the dessisions.
Quote by neilinleeds
no no no no!
you CANNOT buy a liver in the UK! even if you go to a private clinic, the liver comes through the NHS
they do however sell donated organs and blood to other country such as america :shock:
im with NN on this 1...its who you are ....no way would mr average joe off the street be offered a transplant for a knackered liver if hed been drinking 10 pints + a day...
the fact is that george was given the transplant for who he is ...no other reason.....and...you can bet ...somewhere along the way...money came into it..
the fact is that george was given the transplant for who he is ...no other reason.....and...you can bet ...somewhere along the way...money came into it..
Quote by HuxleyNSusie
Plenty of addicts committ suicide be it drugs or drink
.I just dont see the difference
are you seriously trying tio tell me that you can see no difference between a woman who has been or a man/woman who has lost a child trying to commit suicide to escape the pain or someone who suffers from a mental illness to a alcholic needing a transplant?
My dad was a alcholic, as a child we was posted from relative to relatve cause we had no money for food or electric, cause every penny he had went on beer to the point he sold house hold items to support his addiction, but it was a choice he made, noone asked him to start drinking, people do not chose to get mental illnesses.
Sex God
sorry to be off topic but if george doesnt pull through ill miss him, what great footballer the first real popstar player, what a charismatic guy following his retirement ,
yep i know he has helped himself screw things up but staggy will miss the guy
good luck george
yep i know he has helped himself screw things up but staggy will miss the guy
good luck george
Quote by HuxleyNSusie
not what i meant at all NN
I dont see the difference between best and any other addict is what I meant. Id argue addiction is an illness .
then i'm sorry if i miss understood you
maybe addiction is a illness i'm not sure about that but its a illness people chose to get into, as a mother myself i cannot possabily imagin putting anything b4 my kids, let alone drink but people do.
this is a very emotive subject, i dont want to focus on the alcohol angle, my dad was a alcoholic, whos to say it wasnt depression/menatal illness that lead him to drink and continue to?
anyhow i said i wasnt goint to focus on that.
i would donate my organs on death should they be in any state to be used. i feel once this has happened it is the person who owns the organ, and should they choose to lead a clean safe life then so be it, but if they choose to smoke, drink or even go skydiving and die thats their desision. i accept this and therefore still wish to donate.
i understand that people who are waiting for a transplant or have friends family that have/are will maybe feel different.
its like lending money once given its not for me to decide what its spent on, maybe thats simple but if when i die i donate an organ its so someone can lead a life, be it what ever life they choose to lead.
one thing that irratates me is people who will not consider donation yet would accept it for themselves or family if the situation arose.
this was not intended to offend anyone, sorry if it has.
xx lou xxx
anyhow i said i wasnt goint to focus on that.
i would donate my organs on death should they be in any state to be used. i feel once this has happened it is the person who owns the organ, and should they choose to lead a clean safe life then so be it, but if they choose to smoke, drink or even go skydiving and die thats their desision. i accept this and therefore still wish to donate.
i understand that people who are waiting for a transplant or have friends family that have/are will maybe feel different.
its like lending money once given its not for me to decide what its spent on, maybe thats simple but if when i die i donate an organ its so someone can lead a life, be it what ever life they choose to lead.
one thing that irratates me is people who will not consider donation yet would accept it for themselves or family if the situation arose.
this was not intended to offend anyone, sorry if it has.
xx lou xxx
i would donate and i would donate my childrens organs if they died but i would hope that they respected what i had gone tho to give them a second chance, and i'm sorry to say this but if i did donate, if it was a option, and i know its not, i would choose not to have mine or my childrens body parts given to alcholics or smoker with lung cancer etc.
sadely thats not a desision we can make.
it lays in the hands of the dr's and we just have to hope that they make the right desision, its not one i would like to make.
i understand you feelings and im sure this is why it is a anonomys practice.
i cant speek from experience so like i said im sorry if ive upset anyone.
xx lou xxx
it lays in the hands of the dr's and we just have to hope that they make the right desision, its not one i would like to make.
i understand you feelings and im sure this is why it is a anonomys practice.
i cant speek from experience so like i said im sorry if ive upset anyone.
xx lou xxx
Quote by wild rose and the stag
sorry to be off topic but if george doesnt pull through ill miss him, what great footballer the first real popstar player, what a charismatic guy following his retirement ,
yep i know he has helped himself screw things up but staggy will miss the guy
good luck george
Thats what I was thinking - I hate Man Utd, but he was my first hero. If he needs another liver or the best of treatment, I hope he gets it.
Whatever has happened, he has given more than he has received.
