Intelligent Design... Again!

26 Nov 2005

Right i'm going to try again because some people actually understood what i meant but some over-zealous Mod locked it before the discussion began!
Basically, in America particularly but worldwide also, the religious Right have coined a phrase called "Intelligent Design", which advocates the "Garden of Eden" bible story of creating and evolution and dismisses the Big Bang/Darwin more scientific explanations of human progression.
Whilst i couldn't be bother to have an opinion either way because basically no one will ever know the answer, my point was thank God (no pun intended) i'm not American - our friends from across the Atlantic tend to get their little selves very worked up over things like this - bless lol.
My question is - to all us Brits; what do we make of this "phenomenon" of Intelligent Design.
And for those who don't know what i'm going on about and think its obscure, its been on the news for the past 6 months!!! lol

Lee x

26 Nov 2005

It is very scary we have been following the court case in New Scientist.

The below link gives more information on ID and creationism

26 Nov 2005

Quote by Tra-n-Lee
Right i'm going to try again because some people actually understood what i meant but some over-zealous Mod locked it before the discussion began!
Lee x

This is what you posted before, which is not a discussion in it's own right, just a statement of what you felt. If you have a problem with us Moderators and the way we do our job, voluntarily and unpaid, please let us know and we will refund you free membership! mad

Quote by Tra-n-Lee
I personally don't care whether its true or a load of rubbish, but i will say one thing...
Thank GOD i'm not American! :lol: :lol:

Mal

26 Nov 2005

It's a crap theory! :huh:
Another whacky piece of lunacy from across the pond. rolleyes

:roll:

26 Nov 2005

Quote by Mal
Right i'm going to try again because some people actually understood what i meant but some over-zealous Mod locked it before the discussion began!
Lee x

This is what you posted before, which is not a discussion in it's own right, just a statement of what you felt. If you have a problem with us Moderators and the way we do our job, voluntarily and unpaid, please let us know and we will refund you free membership! mad

Quote by Tra-n-Lee
I personally don't care whether its true or a load of rubbish, but i will say one thing...
Thank GOD i'm not American! :lol: :lol:

Mal
Mal, the fact is - people where trying to respond, understood what i meant, and you (i assume you) locked it before they did, which means it was a mistake on your part - the discussion point may not have been clear but many people have started posts on this forum in the past with one word or one sentence introductions and the thing has never been locked.
Simply put, i assume you didn't know what the topic was about and, in your wisdom, decided to lock it without seeing if anyone else did.
That's your call - its not a criticism as such, just an observation that maybe it was done a bit over zealously.
And yeah, Eager, i think it is lunacy as well, hence the quite short nature of my original post because on the subject, the only strong opinion i have on the matter is thank God i'm not American and don't easily get worked up by religious lunacy!!!

26 Nov 2005

I'm not clever enough for all this
But
What if
God said "Let there be Light"
And that was what started the Big Bang?
Mollie xx

26 Nov 2005

Quote by maidinheaven
I'm not clever enough for all this
But
What if
God said "Let there be Light"
And that was what started the Big Bang?
Mollie xx

Bingo...
God created Evolution - complete happy medium!
Thats what i posted on another site and that makes sense to me!
See? It took us clever Brits 5 minutes to work out! biggrin

26 Nov 2005

I've always thought that there wasn't major differences between the big bang theory and the creations story as long as you took a 'day' to mean an unknown unit of time.
The order is similar- as to whether you believe in an intelligence/God directing it I think that it is a matter of your own belief and personally I don't know dunno

I must admit my wife and I do get worried every now and again every time some new theory surfaces eg: 'The Bible Code' With so much anger and destruction going on in the world you do tend to wonder if something like Armageddon will occur and we worry about our sons growing up in this world.
Personally I just try to lead my life treating others as I would like to be treated. The children I teach, I encourage to value and listen to other peoples opinions and to respect and celebrate differences.
I now feel very depressed thinking about all this and I'm now going off to do something else- probably annoy my two sons lol

And if I really get bored when they've gone to bed I might try to get the webcam working- my sister lives in Bradford and we won't be seeing her and her hubby or the rest of the family thinking about it during Christmas so it will have to be web conferences :shock: (first time this sort of thing is possible now with broadband :shock: )
May be on later either cursing :fuckinghell: or asking somebody to check out my webcam !! :bounce: :bounce:

26 Nov 2005

Quote by Tra-n-Lee
Right i'm going to try again because some people actually understood what i meant but some over-zealous Mod locked it before the discussion began!
Lee x

This is what you posted before, which is not a discussion in it's own right, just a statement of what you felt. If you have a problem with us Moderators and the way we do our job, voluntarily and unpaid, please let us know and we will refund you free membership! mad

Quote by Tra-n-Lee
I personally don't care whether its true or a load of rubbish, but i will say one thing...
Thank GOD i'm not American! :lol: :lol:

Mal
Mal, the fact is - people where trying to respond, understood what i meant, and you (i assume you) locked it before they did, which means it was a mistake on your part - the discussion point may not have been clear but many people have started posts on this forum in the past with one word or one sentence introductions and the thing has never been locked.
Simply put, i assume you didn't know what the topic was about and, in your wisdom, decided to lock it without seeing if anyone else did.
That's your call - its not a criticism as such, just an observation that maybe it was done a bit over zealously.
And yeah, Eager, i think it is lunacy as well, hence the quite short nature of my original post because on the subject, the only strong opinion i have on the matter is thank God i'm not American and don't easily get worked up by religious lunacy!!!
By posting such limited information you were limiting the scope of the replies to a few, rather than the majority, therefore leading to a limited discussion. That being said, that is your choice. However, if you think it a good idea to have a go at the moderators, rethink it. I didn't lock it as I came online AFTER it was locked. We work on what is visible and your post left a lot out - obviously otherwise you wouldn't have expanded it the second time.
I don't accept that the moderator who locked it did so out of ignorance of the topic, moreso the ignorance of what was posted, which in it's own right meant nothing. It was a personal statement, not a subject for discussion.

26 Nov 2005

Quote by Tra-n-Lee
Mal, the fact is - people where trying to respond, understood what i meant, and you (i assume you) locked it before they did, which means it was a mistake on your part - the discussion point may not have been clear but many people have started posts on this forum in the past with one word or one sentence introductions and the thing has never been locked.
Simply put, i assume you didn't know what the topic was about and, in your wisdom, decided to lock it without seeing if anyone else did.
That's your call - its not a criticism as such, just an observation that maybe it was done a bit over zealously.
And yeah, Eager, i think it is lunacy as well, hence the quite short nature of my original post because on the subject, the only strong opinion i have on the matter is thank God i'm not American and don't easily get worked up by religious lunacy!!!

I don't think it was over zealous modding at all, I think you are being somewhat provocative towards the mods, you made a post that said nothing to me, it wasn't contributary, it was a random statement, not a start to a discussion. If you couldn't be bothered to expand upon your comment why should anyone be bothered to contribute to it?

26 Nov 2005

Mind you - it is a bit curious, starting a thread on a topic about which you have no views confused

Christian fundamentalism is not exclusively an American phenomenon and there are quite a few good reasons that make it attractive to be American, which could outweigh this particular aspect, I would've thought.
On the Mod thing - it usually pays to be clear what you're on about, especially in an opening post because there is quite a lot of crap around and the Mods just ain't got time to analyse things too deeply. It is unreasonable to expect them to have to do so.

26 Nov 2005

So where did God come from?
Also, only one letter between God and Mod... just a thought!

26 Nov 2005

Quote by blueocean
I find it quite worrying that some religious schools are actually teaching this to children as opposed to Evolution. I think I read during the US election about some school in George Bush's State that was being sued by civil rights movements for teaching Intelligent Design rather than Darwinism.

Hmm, so you want all schools to stop teaching a belief, one that is debated, not believed by many and has not scientific basis or consenus, ie creationism, with a belief, one that is debated, not believed by many and has not scientific basis or consenus, ie Darwinism?
That doesn't make sense to me, why not give both equal weight and allow the student to make his own mind up what he believes?

26 Nov 2005

Quote by Phire
So where did God come from?
Also, only one letter between God and Mod... just a thought!

True - but then so is Sod!!
(before anyone else gets in with it!)
Mal

26 Nov 2005

http://www.swingingheaven.co.uk/swingers-forum/viewtopic/60359.html
Started by a well-known member, absolute gibberish to nearly everyone, only locked because it was about a topic not relevant to SH overall discussion (e.g. radio). And even that was locked with an explanation of WHY it was locked, which is all i asked for in the first place!
Thats the only reason it was locked - not because it was gibberish.
So i'm not showing deliberate provocation - i'm saying that there was enough information for most people who watch the news to discuss the topic! In my view, the discussion point "Intelligent Design" is there, and my opinion to start the discussion is there.
If someone posted "George Best" as a thread today and very little other than that, it would not be locked because people would contribute based on those two words alone - similarly, the term "Intelligent Design" is well known worldwide - probably moreso than George Best who isn't known in America!

26 Nov 2005

Quote by Mal
So where did God come from?
Also, only one letter between God and Mod... just a thought!

True - but then so is Sod!!
(before anyone else gets in with it!)
Mal
Is that something to do with Sod 'em and Modgorra? Or is it Mod 'em and Sodgorra?? lol

26 Nov 2005

He certainly is....... rolleyes

Hijack over..... wink

Marcus......x

26 Nov 2005

Quote by westerross
Mind you - it is a bit curious, starting a thread on a topic about which you have no views
Christian fundamentalism is not exclusively an American phenomenon and there are quite a few good reasons that make it attractive to be American, which could outweigh this particular aspect, I would've thought.
On the Mod thing - it usually pays to be clear what you're on about, especially in an opening post because there is quite a lot of crap around and the Mods just ain't got time to analyse things too deeply. It is unreasonable to expect them to have to do so.

My only view is that i recognise other people have strong views on it - so its interesting to observe but not really in my interest to have a strong opinion one way or the other because in my eyes i see that i'm never gonna know the correct answer anyway!!! lol

26 Nov 2005

Quote by cheekychimp

PMSL - thats Mr. Intelligent Design, Intelligent Street, Designville lol.
Nah, there was a full hour-long documentary on Sky News about it the other week - it's truly amazing in my eyes that someone can take somebody to court in a case which is basically about one theory against another!

26 Nov 2005

Quote by Tra-n-Lee
http://www.swingingheaven.co.uk/swingers-forum/viewtopic/60359.html
Started by a well-known member, absolute gibberish to nearly everyone, only locked because it was about a topic not relevant to SH overall discussion (e.g. radio). And even that was locked with an explanation of WHY it was locked, which is all i asked for in the first place!
Thats the only reason it was locked - not because it was gibberish.

Mod baiting isn't a great idea around here, whoever you are. It'll just get up peoples noses and you won't get on too well. Why not drop the modding whinge and carry on with the topic?
Chris

26 Nov 2005

Quote by Tra-n-Lee
http://www.swingingheaven.co.uk/swingers-forum/viewtopic/60359.html
Started by a well-known member, absolute gibberish to nearly everyone, only locked because it was about a topic not relevant to SH overall discussion (e.g. radio). And even that was locked with an explanation of WHY it was locked, which is all i asked for in the first place!
Thats the only reason it was locked - not because it was gibberish.
So i'm not showing deliberate provocation - i'm saying that there was enough information for most people who watch the news to discuss the topic! In my view, the discussion point "Intelligent Design" is there, and my opinion to start the discussion is there.
If someone posted "George Best" as a thread today and very little other than that, it would not be locked because people would contribute based on those two words alone - similarly, the term "Intelligent Design" is well known worldwide - probably moreso than George Best who isn't known in America!

Ah, I see now. This thread is no longer about the stated subject, but Mod baiting.
As long as I know.
As I stated earlier, we give our time for free, that means absolutely free, no payments of any sort. Totally voluntary. You, on the other hand, pay nothing and expect a level of service far beyond human powers, ie mindreading and an intelligence to understand every single topic ever mentioned in the written word, no matter how badly it is portrayed.
Well, how about we have it on a level playing field and we Mod at the level of the posters post - is that fair? That way I can see a post, play dumb, ban them and tell them it was for anything I care to make up. Sounds about right? And no, that isn't how we do it now, but I might change my mind very shortly.

26 Nov 2005

Quote by Mal
Well, how about we have it on a level playing field and we Mod at the level of the posters post - is that fair? That way I can see a post, play dumb, ban them and tell them it was for anything I care to make up. Sounds about right? And no, that isn't how we do it now, but I might change my mind very shortly.

What's the odds on seeing an apology now, Mal?
I'll give 10-1 against rolleyes

26 Nov 2005

A quick bit of background information for those not aware of the 'intelligent design' debacle:
In America, teaching of religion in schools is forbidden. This means that schools can teach evolution but not creationism (because it's scientific theory, not a religion). The religious right in America have tried to sneak creationism through the back door by proposing Intelligent Design as a 'scientific theory' which says "life is complicated therefore it has to be created by and intelligent supernatural being, not evolution, shut up about all that carbon dating stuff, and being able to breed new types of dog and there's no such thing as dinosaurs, nope, we can't hear you la la la la la la ...". They have been convincing schools to teach this crap alongside evolution, or in the worst cases instead of evolution, because it's 'an equally valid and unprovable scientific theory'.
One of the nicest ways of fighting intelligent design has been the esablishment of
- a slightly more scientifically believable theory of Intelligent Design than 'God did it", which accounts for carbon dating and global warming in ways that "God did it" doesn't ("the Flying Spaghetti Monster is there changing the results with His Noodly Appendage.", "global warming, earthquakes, hurricanes, and other natural disasters are a direct effect of the shrinking numbers of Pirates since the 1800s"). You can even get badges for your car...

Legal action is underway to force schools to give FSM as much curriculum space as Intelligent Design.

26 Nov 2005

I'm not mod-baiting, whatever that is - i just asked in another thread why it had been locked, became in my view understandably confused given that i see quite a few number of threads that give the point of discussion in a sentence or less (for example, http://www.swingingheaven.co.uk/swingers-forum/viewtopic/49370.html) and then opened another thread where i expressed a view that maybe an over-zealous mod locked the thread before people could express their views, because i recieved a few PM's asking "why on earth was that locked, i was trying to reply to that!" lol

The mods do a great job but, because there was no reason at all given for the original locking, i wondered what had happened! rolleyes

And ever since then i've only been replying to what has been said to me, and trying to get on with the topic. I even sent Mal a PM saying no criticism intended and it was confusion on the reason for locking on my part. So far from Mod baiting, i've actually explained i was confused and came to my own conclusion as to why it was locked!
Anyway!
I think Maidinheaven pretty much hit the nail on the head with a compromise - do you think its just a fundamental difference between America and the UK when it comes to issues like this?! It just seems like our Yank friends really get tied up about morality whilst we tend to be a bit more concerned with everyday life!

26 Nov 2005

Quote by marmalaid
Well, how about we have it on a level playing field and we Mod at the level of the posters post - is that fair? That way I can see a post, play dumb, ban them and tell them it was for anything I care to make up. Sounds about right? And no, that isn't how we do it now, but I might change my mind very shortly.

What's the odds on seeing an apology now, Mal?
I'll give 10-1 against rolleyes

Already apologised in PM about half an hour ago for the "over-zealous" remark, and stated i was not criticising moderation on the boards, and that wires simply got crossed... :roll:#
From: Tra-n-Lee
To: Mal
Posted: Sat Nov 26, 2005 6:11 pm
Subject: Oh well!
lol - crossed wires there! Apologies anyway; the original post made sense in my head and people PM'ed me asking why it had been locked while they were trying to reply so i got very confused!
Anyway, no agitation meant - just confusion.
Cheers,
Lee

26 Nov 2005

Quote by Mister_Discreet
A quick bit of background information for those not aware of the 'intelligent design' debacle:
In America, teaching of religion in schools is forbidden. This means that schools can teach evolution but not creationism (because it's scientific theory, not a religion). The religious right in America have tried to sneak creationism through the back door by proposing Intelligent Design as a 'scientific theory' which says "life is complicated therefore it has to be created by and intelligent supernatural being, not evolution, shut up about all that carbon dating stuff, and being able to breed new types of dog and there's no such thing as dinosaurs, nope, we can't hear you la la la la la la ...". They have been convincing schools to teach this crap alongside evolution, or in the worst cases instead of evolution, because it's 'an equally valid and unprovable scientific theory'.
One of the nicest ways of fighting intelligent design has been the esablishment of
Flying Spaghetti Monsterism - a slightly more scientifically believable theory of Intelligent Design than 'God did it", which accounts for carbon dating and global warming in ways that "God did it" doesn't ("the Flying Spaghetti Monster is there changing the results with His Noodly Appendage.", "global warming, earthquakes, hurricanes, and other natural disasters are a direct effect of the shrinking numbers of Pirates since the 1800s"). You can even get badges for your car...

Legal action is underway to force schools to give FSM as much curriculum space as Intelligent Design.

Hahahaha! I forgot about the Giant Spaghetti Monster - it was on the Sky News report!
I was eating at the time - reading or seeing the Giant Spaghetti Monsters whilst eating or drinking is not advisable! Especially the mockery on the Last Supper painting! lol

Makes the Da Vinci Code look like a rewrite of the bible!

26 Nov 2005

Right,bback to the topic rolleyes

What I find frightening about Intelligent design and creationism is that it is being taught as fact in science lessons.
Science is based on theories with experimental data to back up those theories. This includes Dawinism and natural selection.
An example of natural selection is the Methecillin resistance of Staph aureus and the emergence of ESBL's. Due to the over use and improper use of antibiotics bacteria have "evolved" to overcome the selection pressure. The bacteria which do not have the resistant gene are killed by the antibiotic. The bacteria which contain the resistant gene are able to multiply.
Intelligent Design is a theory based on a belief. By it's very nature it cannot be backed up with evidence. It therefore does not have a place in science lessons. If it should be taught at all it should be taught as part of a religious studies lesson.

26 Nov 2005

Quote by Mister_Discreet
about all that carbon dating stuff, and being able to breed new types of dog and there's no such thing as dinosaurs, nope, we can't hear you la la la la la la ...". They have been convincing schools to teach this crap alongside evolution, or in the worst cases instead

And here was me thinking that you were a well reasoned and tolerant individual, MD!
How can it be fair to dismiss what so many people believe as fact in preferance for what many other people see as fact. Darwinsim, atheism and agnosticism are as much a belief as creationism, what's your belief and label from the above? Why should your belief be taught and not mine? If that's not fundamentalism what is?
Chris

26 Nov 2005

Quote by Tra-n-Lee
Already apologised in PM about half an hour ago for the "over-zealous" remark, and stated i was not criticising moderation on the boards, and that wires simply got crossed... #
From: Tra-n-Lee
To: Mal
Posted: Sat Nov 26, 2005 6:11 pm
Subject: Oh well!
lol - crossed wires there! Apologies anyway; the original post made sense in my head and people PM'ed me asking why it had been locked while they were trying to reply so i got very confused!
Anyway, no agitation meant - just confusion.
Cheers,
Lee

Well done, Lee. Shall we drop it now then?

26 Nov 2005

Quote by marmalaid
Already apologised in PM about half an hour ago for the "over-zealous" remark, and stated i was not criticising moderation on the boards, and that wires simply got crossed... #
From: Tra-n-Lee
To: Mal
Posted: Sat Nov 26, 2005 6:11 pm
Subject: Oh well!
lol - crossed wires there! Apologies anyway; the original post made sense in my head and people PM'ed me asking why it had been locked while they were trying to reply so i got very confused!
Anyway, no agitation meant - just confusion.
Cheers,
Lee

Well done, Lee. Shall we drop it now then?
Yep, but you lost ya bet! wink

I put a pound on, ya owe me Â£11!!!! lol

:wink: