Can I step into the same river twice?
Nola x 
Sex God
I have a question for the more philosophical of you forumites.
Can I step into the same river twice?
Nola x
Can I step into the same river twice?
Nola x Join the most popular community of UK swingers now
Login
Philosophy for a Friday
last reply
46 replies
1.8k views
0 watchers
0 likes
Sex God
Quote by noladreams30
I have a question for the more philosophical of you forumites.
Can I step into the same river twice?
Yes, just watch out for the crap below the surface that you now know is there, waiting to entangle you and pull you under.
Sex God
The ever pragmatic Frecklicious there! 
But what I meant was, will the river actually ever be the same?
If you step into a river, get out, then step back into it again, a certain amount of water will have flowed by in the meantime. Is it the same river?
But what I meant was, will the river actually ever be the same?
If you step into a river, get out, then step back into it again, a certain amount of water will have flowed by in the meantime. Is it the same river?
Sex God
Quote by DeeCee
I have a question for the more philosophical of you forumites.
Can I step into the same river twice?
Do you wish to step into the same river twice?
Maybe...
but could I?! 
Sex God
My word! Heraklitus on a swinging site!
It all depends on what you define as "same". The river is the same as when you stepped into it the first time. It has the same name, same geographic position (within an almost tiny geographic fraction of a tiny percent) and will share many similar characteristics.
However the river is, paradoxically, NOT the same as it will be different water with different things in it that you are stepping into. When you step in a second time, you will not be treading into exactly the same water.
So, the river is not the "same" river in terms of purely qualitive measures, albeit it is the same in terms of numerics and linguistics. Linguistic ambuguity over the word "same" causes the philosophers dilemma.
So, in purely numeric terms you CAN step into the same river twice. In qualitative terms, you cannot. You CAN however step into a puddle twice, provided it is in a steady state (ie, it isn't raining and isn't warm enough for any evaporation to take place) though there is the argument that simply observing and interacting with something, changes it's make up. Heisenberg Principle and all that. Certainly standing in it would do so.
So can you really stand in ANYTHING twice?
There is one thing you can for sure I reckon.
It all depends on what you define as "same". The river is the same as when you stepped into it the first time. It has the same name, same geographic position (within an almost tiny geographic fraction of a tiny percent) and will share many similar characteristics.
However the river is, paradoxically, NOT the same as it will be different water with different things in it that you are stepping into. When you step in a second time, you will not be treading into exactly the same water.
So, the river is not the "same" river in terms of purely qualitive measures, albeit it is the same in terms of numerics and linguistics. Linguistic ambuguity over the word "same" causes the philosophers dilemma.
So, in purely numeric terms you CAN step into the same river twice. In qualitative terms, you cannot. You CAN however step into a puddle twice, provided it is in a steady state (ie, it isn't raining and isn't warm enough for any evaporation to take place) though there is the argument that simply observing and interacting with something, changes it's make up. Heisenberg Principle and all that. Certainly standing in it would do so.
So can you really stand in ANYTHING twice?
There is one thing you can for sure I reckon.
Sex God
Can I meet the same person twice?
Sex God
theoretically yes but it wont be quite the same person :lol:
:lol: Sex God
Okay... so let's get a bit deeper.
I'm on a critical thinking trip at the mo
How can it be determined that my experience of consciousness is the same as anyone else's experience of consciousness?
I'm on a critical thinking trip at the mo
How can it be determined that my experience of consciousness is the same as anyone else's experience of consciousness?
Sex God
Theoretically yes, provided you went back in time to the exact same time you met the person initially and at that very moment removed the '1st' Nola and replaced her with the '2nd' Nola. Then you could meet the "same" person twice. Or three or more times. I venture however it would not be very entertaining. Unless you were meeting Jeremy Kyle and skewring his testicles on a kebab stick...
Unfortunately the same logical argument applies in relative human terms. When you meet someone for the first time they are, the very act of meeting them changes them in some way, not just in terms of experience but its also argued in physiological, sociological and psychological ways too. So when you meet that person again, even if it is just moments later, they are not the "same" as they were before in the literal sense of the word. They are "similar", but not the same.
God I love philosophy...
"Immanual Kant was a real pissant,
Who was very rarely stable,
Heidegger, Heidegger was a boozy beggar,
Who could think you under the table,
Douglas Hume could out consume
Wilhelm Friedrich Hegel,
And Wittgenstein was a beery swine
who was just as schloshed as Schlegel...
There's nothing Nietzsche couldn't teach you about the raising of the wrist...
Socrates himself was permanenetly pissed.
John Stewart Mill, of his own free will, on half a pint of shandy was particularly ill,
Plato they say, could stick it away, half a crate of whisky every day
Aristotle, Aristotle was a bugger for the bottle,
Hobbes was fond of his Dram
And Rene Descartes was a drunken fart,
I drink therefore I am.
Yes Socrates himself is particularly missed,
A lovely little thinker but a bugger when he's pissed.
Unfortunately the same logical argument applies in relative human terms. When you meet someone for the first time they are, the very act of meeting them changes them in some way, not just in terms of experience but its also argued in physiological, sociological and psychological ways too. So when you meet that person again, even if it is just moments later, they are not the "same" as they were before in the literal sense of the word. They are "similar", but not the same.
God I love philosophy...
"Immanual Kant was a real pissant,
Who was very rarely stable,
Heidegger, Heidegger was a boozy beggar,
Who could think you under the table,
Douglas Hume could out consume
Wilhelm Friedrich Hegel,
And Wittgenstein was a beery swine
who was just as schloshed as Schlegel...
There's nothing Nietzsche couldn't teach you about the raising of the wrist...
Socrates himself was permanenetly pissed.
John Stewart Mill, of his own free will, on half a pint of shandy was particularly ill,
Plato they say, could stick it away, half a crate of whisky every day
Aristotle, Aristotle was a bugger for the bottle,
Hobbes was fond of his Dram
And Rene Descartes was a drunken fart,
I drink therefore I am.
Yes Socrates himself is particularly missed,
A lovely little thinker but a bugger when he's pissed.
Quote by noladreams30
Okay... so let's get a bit deeper.
I'm on a critical thinking trip at the mo
How can it be determined that my experience of consciousness is the same as anyone else's experience of consciousness?
Before you can answer those, you must first get to grips with the factors of evolution and perception in relation to your question.
Things change, and people see things differently based on thoughts and experiences, with a measure of time added, which can then lead to nostalgia blurring the memory.
Quote by noladreams30
The ever pragmatic Frecklicious there!
But what I meant was, will the river actually ever be the same?
If you step into a river, get out, then step back into it again, a certain amount of water will have flowed by in the meantime. Is it the same river?
does the river not constantly change even whilst you are in it?
or have we moved on?
Sex God
Quote by DeeCee
The ever pragmatic Frecklicious there!
But what I meant was, will the river actually ever be the same?
If you step into a river, get out, then step back into it again, a certain amount of water will have flowed by in the meantime. Is it the same river?
does the river not constantly change even whilst you are in it?
or have we moved on?
Exactly - both us and the river have changed. So therefore I can't step into the same river... it may be the "same" in a linguistic and geographic sense. But it's fundamentally not the same, at the same time! :lol:
Sex God
Quote by noladreams30
I have a question for the more philosophical of you forumites.
Can I step into the same river twice?
Yes and No! You can step into the same river, but you can't step into the same part of the river.
Quote by noladreams30
The ever pragmatic Frecklicious there!
But what I meant was, will the river actually ever be the same?
If you step into a river, get out, then step back into it again, a certain amount of water will have flowed by in the meantime. Is it the same river?
does the river not constantly change even whilst you are in it?
or have we moved on?
Exactly - both us and the river have changed. So therefore I can't step into the same river... it may be the "same" in a linguistic and geographic sense. But it's fundamentally not the same, at the same time! :lol:
Critical thinking might include "why" you got out of the river the first time?
Sex God
Quote by noladreams30
Okay... so let's get a bit deeper.
I'm on a critical thinking trip at the mo
How can it be determined that my experience of consciousness is the same as anyone else's experience of consciousness?
I don't think you can qualitavely demonstrate that two people see and interpret the same experience in the same way.
The best we can hope for is that we share a similar response to a stimulus. For example, we get a pin prick on the finger. We say "Ow" and pull the finger away. However the notion that both people have exactly the same experience depends on a great many aspects that make up the individual. Some people may like the experience of having a pin prick. Therefore their conscious recall of the event will be slightly different to someone who didn't enjoy it.
I think the best we can say is that many of us share a similar consciousness about some things. Collective consciousness is for the realms of fantasy and magic I'm afraid. There are too many differences for that to be equivocally the case.
The only argument I can see counter to this are physiological responses, which are not formed consciously. It sounds paradoxical to suggest that it is from our unconscious responses, that we perhaps can share a form of collective conscious that we understand to be the same as what we feel. For example, You go the North Pole and you take your coat off and you shiver. Not a conscious thing, entirely physiological but if everyone in your group (bar the Polar bear) did the same, they'd share that common experience. However even then you can see the problem in the argument in that some people will "feel" it more than others.
Are you out to make my head explode this evening?
Ok, here's a good one for you then Miss... Say we breed a Pig that wants to be killed and eaten. It is entire purpose in life is to grow succulent to be eaten and then encourage you to do so. Is that morally wrong?
Would you have a Bacon sarnie of a willing victim?
Ah, rivers.
What I like most about rivers is you can't step in the same water twice. The water's always changing, always flowing.
Res can do the Philosophers. I'll stick with Pocahontas. :smug:
The first question to answer is, what is a river? Is it the geographical feature, or the water flowing within?
If it's the water, then no, you can't. If it's the feature- yes.
Just watch out for the shopping trolley...
What I like most about rivers is you can't step in the same water twice. The water's always changing, always flowing.
Res can do the Philosophers. I'll stick with Pocahontas. :smug:
The first question to answer is, what is a river? Is it the geographical feature, or the water flowing within?
If it's the water, then no, you can't. If it's the feature- yes.
Just watch out for the shopping trolley...
Sex God
Res can do the Philosophers. I'll stick with Pocahontas. :smug:
quote]
Can I poke-your-highness?
Stupid fecking books... Why didn't I listen to Uncle Walt?
Sex God
I think I bored everyone to death...
But am I the same now as I was before?
But am I the same now as I was before?
Sex God
Quote by essex34m
Why didn't I listen to Uncle Walt?
Because Mr Men was telling you something else?
And I thought only I could hear the voices!
Thankyou Essex! Or should I call you Mr Clever!
Mr Dizzy.
Sex God
Okay:
If you could describe a perfect life with just three words, what would those three words be?
If you could describe a perfect life with just three words, what would those three words be?
Sex God
Quote by Jaq-kryps
I'm still wondering why ya stepping in the river twice, can't ya see the bridge
She stepped in once then when she got out, stood in some dog poo, so stepped back in to wash it off
Sex God
Happiness - contentment - lust (for life)
