Having children is a massive commitment of time, money, energy, one's life, and if you are not able or willing to make that commitment - for whatever reason - then I don't think you should embark upon it.
Most of the time most of us are having sex for fun rather than to make babies and if a pregnancy is an accidental result then a termination seems to me a sensible thing to do ... and far more sensible than having a baby who isn't wanted.
Having children is a massive commitment of time, money, energy, one's life, and if you are not able or willing to make that commitment - for whatever reason - then I don't think you should embark upon it.
Most of the time most of us are having sex for fun rather than to make babies and if a pregnancy is an accidental result then a termination seems to me a sensible thing to do ... and far more sensible than having a baby who isn't wanted.
I was a single parent when I got pregnant with my 2nd child...the father wanted me to have an abortion....((the other option was for me to have the baby and give him the child (full custody)) to him was willing to pay for me to go private...go with me...and bring me back home..then leave me (forever)!
We booked the appointment...however when it came to the day..I could not go through with it....told the father I could not go through with it nor give him the child once born...and I have not seen him since.....
So I had the child. I have not regretted one single day of having my 2nd child due to his selfishness. I am not against abortion...each to your own I say..but personally I did not have the balls to go through with the abortion nor I do not think I could have lived with the guilt after..especially if (and I did)I had more children after.
If I had gone for the abortion...it would have been for him..not for me....and Im glad I did not do it for him and he has had nothing whatsoever to do with his child for 13 yrs...and you know what..I aint bovvered lol
i have two children, they were both plesent surprises.
i dont like to say accident as it sounds unwanted.
i was on the pill at the time and with their father.
its been very hard as i was left both times weeks after one baby and weeks into the second pregnancy.
the reason i carried on with the pregnancy? truthfully i had no option i didnt know i was expecting till i was 6 months on the first and the second there was no question, i was keeping nuff said.
i have never been in the position of having to make the desision on abortion, in a idea world youd take precautions before sex and during and if a accident happened during then ideally id go and get the morning after pill.
would i have to have consent at that point from the male partner?
regarding a baby being born with or without the consent of the father, if the father desires involvement or rights to the child then if you want to you can go to court and request a parental responsibility order.
i believe every child is better off with the positive influence of both parents.
should this not be possible then i hope they at least have a positive and loving influence from one parent.
so should the father have rights? id hope that anyone considering to have a child would have the morals to be adult enough to talk to each other.
not possible? then sorry it has to lie with the mother as she has to go through this.
i am not dismissing the father may have feelngs but it would be wrong to force a person into keeping or terminating a pregnancy.
another thought, at what point who "owns" the fetus?
thinking back to the ivf situation where the father refused the ex partner to go ahead with implanting the fetus.
after a really long reply i guess i have to appologise for not really giving a answer.
xxx fem xx
I've tried not to comment .......... but BOLLOX ...... if this makes me as popular as a hole in the head ............ so be it!!!
I think the question should be ........ does the baby have any rights?
I think the Dad & the Mum should both have rights ..... but at the end of the day it's about a babies life.
I am going to step out of this one ...... and get Steve to hide the soap box.
Sam xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Hmmm... A few thoughts on the subject. Bear with me. I am liable to ramble or rant at various points, but as was pointed out, it's an emotive subject. I will also apologise for not quoting properly or acknowleging author names, as I have read the bulk of this thread this evening and can't remember who said what and don't know how to multi-quote.
First off, the correct terminology is termination. It's not an abortion. Abortions are what are commonly referred to as miscarriages. Abortions are where the body rejects the foetus for whatever reason. A termination is where the pregnancy is brought to a halt by external means.
Right, now I have that off my chest, I can continue...
An interesting point was raised earlier where someone mentioned in passing the issue of a man denying his ex-partner the right to use the fertilised eggs stored by them as a couple. This was upheld in the European Court of Human Rights I believe. They had been together and because she was due to have chemo which would have destroyed her ability to produce eggs, they had IVF and stored some of the resulting embryos for future use. They then split, but she still wanted a baby. The only way to have her own biological child was to use the eggs fertilised by him. He had the right to prevent her from doing so.
So there we have one in favour of the man having the right to determine whether a baby can be born. Slightly off subject given that the embryo was frozen in a tube somewhere, but it's still a potential life and he was given the right to decide whether that life should be allowed to defrost and become a human being.
On the other hand, should a man be allowed the right to dictate to a woman that a part of her that is healthy and viable be removed, just because he doesn't want parental responsibility (or just plain doesn't want kids)? If that is the case, would men be allowed the right to dictate that a wife or long-term partner has a hysterectomy to fully preclude the ability to have children at any point?
The choice here is the same at that point in time, because a foetus is attached to the mother by the umbilical cord and the two are technically one person up to the point where the baby is born, the cord is cut and the placenta is expelled. A viable foetus being terminated by the will, or rights, of the father, would be technically the same as enforced sterilisation by the same person.
Another thought for you: if the father wants the child but the mother doesn't, does he have the right to demand that she play "host" to a benign "parasite" in her body until such times as she can stop being a mobile breeding unit for his offspring? The woman has to go through a complete change in her body chemistry with hormones as well as sharing her food intake, blood and oxygen with something she does not want while the father can be as concerned as he likes, but generally be as useful as a chocolate fireguard when it comes to the gestation of the foetus.
Murder was also mentioned along the way, and the legal definition of such. I personally don't believe that termination within the first 23 weeks is murder. The reason being that the foetus up to that point in time is fully dependant on the mother for all functions, and therefore could possibly be likened to an organ such as the liver or kidneys. That's looking at it from a completely emotionless aspect, without cooing over a bump with a heartbeat. After the 23 weeks, if the mother's mental health was such that continuing the pregnancy was not going to be possible, the baby could be induced, and there is a good chance it would survive outside the womb with specialist care from that point on.
I won't comment on blame or whose fault it was that the pregnancy happened, as these things happen from time to time, either planned by one side or the other, or purely accidental where birth control failed in whichever way.
Hmmm yes I think this thread has gone off track slightly as the whole abortion matter is a different one entirely. It's the fathers rights that are being discussed here.
This is my view and Stormy's apparently after chatting with him in the bath last night (We have our most productive discussions in the bath!)We feel that "broadly speaking" yes the father does have a right to a say in what happens. Presumably if this is a couple and they have got as far as sexual and intimate moments then they will also have some idea of the others views and opinions before getting to this stage?
I realise that it's the womans body and I am all for being in control of my body, but if it were me and I did'nt want children I would do everything possible to prevent this happening but if it did happen then my partner would be included in the decision. If I wanted the child and he did'nt I would assure him that I was'nt going to hold him responsible and bring the child up myself. If I did'nt want it and he did
then the situation is not as clear in my mind. I still think the father should have a choice but it's here that the different people and different situations thing rears its head as everyones situations are different and can only be sorted out in varying ways.
So thats my view at the moment, but it's an interesting thread as long as it's kept on track.
Love Fire xx
(Who's fault it was that it went off track in the first place)
there i was yesterday typing a further response to redress the balance a little..... when my phone rang.
my friend told me that he and his partner had recieved news at a scan indicating that their unborn baby had severe difficulties and that they had decided upon a late termination.
being a father myself, having been through terminations and having to logically deal with unplanned pregnancy i know that the right to choose what is done for the unborn (including termination) is a right that should be respected.
just because some people believe that it is immoral and unethical doesnt give them the right to call people who choose this action murderers and suggest we are barbaric etc.
how rude and ignorant can you be?????
is it your wish to control everyone and judge them by your own standards????
Which answers the question, men have NO rights whatsoever.
If men are forced to pay for an unwanted child (excluding rapists) and held accountable because they willingly had sex, then surely a women should also be held accountable because they also willingly had sex, and not then have an option of termination. (excluding certain circumstances)
really sorry but I could not let this go without comment 
I guess it appears that its just words sometimes. And i forget how words can hurt.
