They don't do it for me either but I have a sneaking suspicion that one of my relationships lasted longer than it should have just so that she could maintain access to it.
Oh dear, not a very good advert for my services, is it?
:twisted:
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flamehot
Over 90 days ago
Straight Male, 52
Bi-curious Female, 57
0 miles · Essex
Forum
Warming the Bed
{b}Freckledbird{/b]: You accused me of trolling, the only reasonable explanation for your post containing the image. Your edit to deny such intention is rather weak. My rejoinder was that I had been a member of the site / forum longer than you & the inference was that this wasn't typical troll behaviour. The fact that you don't understand my motives is your problem, not mine. And since you accuse me of evasion, fell free to point it out.
BTW it might interest you to know that premature / false accusations of trolling are also breaches of netiquette.
BTW it might interest you to know that premature / false accusations of trolling are also breaches of netiquette.
Warming the Bed
NW Cpl
Er, I did not introduce it since it already existed. I chose to focus on that because it was the one I was interested in, so nothing to wonder there. Most of the other attributes the OP had mentioned were not applicable to me.
Forum / thread good practice includes not posting a new topic when there is already one encompassing it.
Which was the sweeping statement that seems to have raised a few hackles.
You also said:
Your qualification of “my experience” applies to prejudices and stereotypes, not the catchall statement about clubs.
It is a paragraph. Artificially separating those two sentences so that the qualifier applies just to one distorts the meaning.
He named the effect. I gave my opinion as to possible cause. Nothing hidden there.
As I said earlier, there is no definitive way of proving bias whether positive or negative except by a blinded trial & it is impossible to do so during personal meets. And there is no accusation or need to stand trial. You don't have to answer to anyone except yourself if you don't want to & if after genuine introspection you are happy that you didn't, then you say so. But if you know in your mind that the reason you won't play is because you think Asians have curry breath (without personal knowledge of that in this particular instance) (a random example), then it is up to you to be honest to yourself.
Shall I turn that comment around? Why is that person sat in that corner? Is it because of something you did or contributed to? Suppose it is a restaurant & a very raucous party have taken the place over on more than one occasion. So the customer who prefers their meal in quieter surrounds might decide it was not worth going there after a while. How about that analogy? That is what I am asking you to consider. Why is that such a stretch?
Fabio: This is the Cafe, I offered an opinion for discussion. I do not insist that people meet / play with me or anyone else for that matter. I gave my opinion as to why some might / might not. I do not even insist that people comment on this discussion. There appears however a desire on the part of some to stop such discussion. Why, I wonder!
Freckledbird: I appear to have been here on the forum longer than you, not counting my profile on the original site. If you feel that bringing up a difficult topic that you do not understand is trolling, you are welcome not to participate.
Quote by northwest-cpl
In another thread, on 27-7-2006:
Out of the 5 categories that the man put himself into, you chose to concentrate on the racial element. You chose not to wonder if it was his age or lack of experience etc. that contributed to his lack of success. It was you that introduced the racial element into that thread and I have to wonder at your motives for doing that.
Er, I did not introduce it since it already existed. I chose to focus on that because it was the one I was interested in, so nothing to wonder there. Most of the other attributes the OP had mentioned were not applicable to me.
Forum / thread good practice includes not posting a new topic when there is already one encompassing it.
In your original post on this thread you said:
There are few Asian people at clubs because they are made to feel unwelcome.
Which was the sweeping statement that seems to have raised a few hackles.
You also said:
Quote by Flamehot
Prejudices & stereotypes are very common, at-least in my experience, so much so that I have given up going.
Your qualification of “my experience” applies to prejudices and stereotypes, not the catchall statement about clubs.
It is a paragraph. Artificially separating those two sentences so that the qualifier applies just to one distorts the meaning.
The original poster in this thread did not say that he found prejudice in clubs.
He named the effect. I gave my opinion as to possible cause. Nothing hidden there.
However, what defence do we have to the accusation by the Asian man, that we do not wish to play with when we are playing with several white guys, that we are excluding him on the grounds of his race.
As I said earlier, there is no definitive way of proving bias whether positive or negative except by a blinded trial & it is impossible to do so during personal meets. And there is no accusation or need to stand trial. You don't have to answer to anyone except yourself if you don't want to & if after genuine introspection you are happy that you didn't, then you say so. But if you know in your mind that the reason you won't play is because you think Asians have curry breath (without personal knowledge of that in this particular instance) (a random example), then it is up to you to be honest to yourself.
In our experience, the Asian guys who are successful with us, and there are many, are the ones who make the effort, just as the successful white guys and black guys and mixed race guys do. The unsuccessful ones sit in a corner and presumably blame someone else for their lack of success.
Shall I turn that comment around? Why is that person sat in that corner? Is it because of something you did or contributed to? Suppose it is a restaurant & a very raucous party have taken the place over on more than one occasion. So the customer who prefers their meal in quieter surrounds might decide it was not worth going there after a while. How about that analogy? That is what I am asking you to consider. Why is that such a stretch?
Fabio: This is the Cafe, I offered an opinion for discussion. I do not insist that people meet / play with me or anyone else for that matter. I gave my opinion as to why some might / might not. I do not even insist that people comment on this discussion. There appears however a desire on the part of some to stop such discussion. Why, I wonder!
Freckledbird: I appear to have been here on the forum longer than you, not counting my profile on the original site. If you feel that bringing up a difficult topic that you do not understand is trolling, you are welcome not to participate.
Warming the Bed
Mr Powers: I passed no judgement on whether you believed that particular stereotype or not. But the question was still based on one & that is what I pointed out. And if you think I didn't answer your question of 2048, I refer you to my post of 2119, specifically the second paragraph. Or are there any others that you feel are left unanswered? If you feel that that question was innocuous, would you be prepared to answer mine?
I have no particular desire to have the last word or play games by encouraging / discouraging others from joining in the conversation.
I have no particular desire to have the last word or play games by encouraging / discouraging others from joining in the conversation.
Warming the Bed
No Mr Powers, that was not what I was referring to. I meant the implication inherent in your question that Asian men were happy to attend clubs to have sex with women of other ethnicities but would object to Asian women doing the same. You might have not been aware of it but it is present just the same. With reference to my mention of colours & performance, I was giving you an example of a different stereotype where colour was linked to anatomy & performance. Stereotypes can be positive or negative, not necessarily just one way.
Warming the Bed
would you like to see more single Asian females attend clubs...or is that frowned upon and non-Asian females are considered easier targets to have sex with?
That Mr Powers was what I meant by a stereotype. Would you ask a similar question of another group? Would it be ok to assume that because someone is black / white / rainbow coloured, they are a better / worse performer?
To me personally, it is up to each individual as to whether they do something, be it swing or attend a club. And I have had longish-term relationships with different ethnicities, so no problems there.
WBBabe: So why the vehemence? Your post of 2033 & 2038 make a few assumptions about me, none of which I am interested in disabusing you of. As I said earlier, I am very specific about what I am looking for & have no need to play "cards" of any kind. This was a comment & discussion. But I have a feeling that my grasp of statistics is better than yours. And your post of 1607 said that your questions were addressed to me, hence the answer. I shall leave you to your indignation.
Warming the Bed
I wrote a very long answer & promptly lost it when my browser login timed out :-( Grrr Safari.
Duncan / Mallock: Butting out of that sub-conversation.
NW Cpl: Maybe. But it is not the attendance but the interactions & success rate that count.
WBBabe: In answer to your questions, both. But for the benefit of readers I have to reiterate now that it is not my profile or ad that states racial requirements but that of the OP. And as those who have seen my profile can confirm, I am fairly selective myself. Swinging to me is about sharing, not a drive-by. I tried out a fair number of clubs a while ago. Your calculations are wrong. You need to calculate the relative ratios of Asians at the clubs to their success rates compared to those of other groups. The only definitive way of proving this would on the net would be to make up dummy profiles identical except for pics & race & send messages out, totting up just how many struck gold. That however is too much like work. And it can't be done for meets, which is why I asked for peoples experiences & opinions.
Mr Powers: Not just fewer single Asian women, couples too are under-represented compared to the males. And possibly that is for societal & cultural reasons i.e. depends on their familial circumstances etc. It could be that the Madonna syndrome is more common, maybe that they are less comfortable in public, maybe even that they are less exposed to the knowledge & opportunity. And even fewer of those that swing go to clubs was the point. Since I am male I can only go by impressions & what I have been told but the reasons range from general comfort levels to interactions with others.
Duncan / Mallock: Butting out of that sub-conversation.
NW Cpl: Maybe. But it is not the attendance but the interactions & success rate that count.
WBBabe: In answer to your questions, both. But for the benefit of readers I have to reiterate now that it is not my profile or ad that states racial requirements but that of the OP. And as those who have seen my profile can confirm, I am fairly selective myself. Swinging to me is about sharing, not a drive-by. I tried out a fair number of clubs a while ago. Your calculations are wrong. You need to calculate the relative ratios of Asians at the clubs to their success rates compared to those of other groups. The only definitive way of proving this would on the net would be to make up dummy profiles identical except for pics & race & send messages out, totting up just how many struck gold. That however is too much like work. And it can't be done for meets, which is why I asked for peoples experiences & opinions.
Mr Powers: Not just fewer single Asian women, couples too are under-represented compared to the males. And possibly that is for societal & cultural reasons i.e. depends on their familial circumstances etc. It could be that the Madonna syndrome is more common, maybe that they are less comfortable in public, maybe even that they are less exposed to the knowledge & opportunity. And even fewer of those that swing go to clubs was the point. Since I am male I can only go by impressions & what I have been told but the reasons range from general comfort levels to interactions with others.
Warming the Bed
Mr Powers: Again you misunderstand. You are mixing up two separate points.
NW cpl: Possibly, which is why I expressed it as in my experience & as my opinion, not a total statement of fact. And I did also say that there are good people around too. I have been to Liaisons but that was 6 yrs ago I think, so possibly different now. True re Asian women & indeed most of that is cultural but even allowing for that there is a discrepancy.
Duncan / Mallock: I agreed with you but was pointing out that such slanted behaviour does not have to be explicit.
NW cpl: Possibly, which is why I expressed it as in my experience & as my opinion, not a total statement of fact. And I did also say that there are good people around too. I have been to Liaisons but that was 6 yrs ago I think, so possibly different now. True re Asian women & indeed most of that is cultural but even allowing for that there is a discrepancy.
Duncan / Mallock: I agreed with you but was pointing out that such slanted behaviour does not have to be explicit.
Warming the Bed
Mr Powers: And this is where you misunderstand. It is equally as likely that I would not approach your wife because she might not be to my tastes. So it is not about people being attracted to me or otherwise. I am who & what I am and a glance at my profile will tell you that. But you are happier to state that there might be a cultural issue rather than consider that there might be a problem originating from your side (not you personally, a figure of speech). It is about keeping an open mind & trying to walk a mile in the other persons shoes.
Warming the Bed
Mr Powers: Er, you shot yourself in the foot there. What I did say was that the atmosphere could be uncomfortable for some Asians. You denied that & claimed it was ciltural. It hardly seems reasonable for you to then state in the next post that whites are being called prejudiced when they choose not to play with Asians.
The reply to Freckledbird was that there were non-Asians specifying preferences excluding Asians in the same way that the OP had expressed a preference for Asians. They don't get flamed in the way that she supposed. Thank you for illustrating my point.
The reply to Freckledbird was that there were non-Asians specifying preferences excluding Asians in the same way that the OP had expressed a preference for Asians. They don't get flamed in the way that she supposed. Thank you for illustrating my point.
Warming the Bed
Mr Powers: If you say so. Though I wonder which of us could claim first-hand knowledge. And in any case Asian swingers are hardly being traditional, be they singles or couples.
Freckledbird: Lots do & there have been threads on the forum before where other posters (including those who have posted on this thread) have defended it. Again, I am not bothered & if anyone doesn't want to meet, I am not insisting that they do. This is a discussion.
NW-cpl: Sounds interesting. So which one is this?
Freckledbird: Lots do & there have been threads on the forum before where other posters (including those who have posted on this thread) have defended it. Again, I am not bothered & if anyone doesn't want to meet, I am not insisting that they do. This is a discussion.
NW-cpl: Sounds interesting. So which one is this?
Warming the Bed
Mike: I agree with you about the sensitivities surrounding race. FYI I have been open to all races. I am presuming that the reasons are mixed but there were a few articles about swinging (one in the Indy comes to mind) which included a socio-economic categorisation of participants etc. I have known Asian couples who swing & not many of them use clubs.
Winchwench: You posted your comment in-line & hence it displays as part of my text. It has not been deleted. All I can say is lucky guy & I wish it was me.
Mallock: I agree that an explicit bar on racial grounds wouldn't work but there are informal networks / unspoken rules anyway which is how 99% of things happen in practice. And my feeling is that most of the ghettoisation happens because of feeling unwelcome, in subtle ways.
Freckledbird: I accept point (b). However when it is Asians who are open to others, your point falls down & it is my assumption that there are a lot more people in this group than the other.
Winchwench: You posted your comment in-line & hence it displays as part of my text. It has not been deleted. All I can say is lucky guy & I wish it was me.
Mallock: I agree that an explicit bar on racial grounds wouldn't work but there are informal networks / unspoken rules anyway which is how 99% of things happen in practice. And my feeling is that most of the ghettoisation happens because of feeling unwelcome, in subtle ways.
Freckledbird: I accept point (b). However when it is Asians who are open to others, your point falls down & it is my assumption that there are a lot more people in this group than the other.
Warming the Bed
The Sybian is quite unobtrusive & when the actual probes are not attached, looks pretty innocuous. It currenty has pride of place in my games room with the treadmill & all visitors have assumed it to be some sort of exercise gear. I have only told one or two (female of course) about its real uses.
Warming the Bed
It appears that the OP has deleted his profile, so in the absence of evidence to the contrary, can we assume that he did not have much success?
So, a serious question. I wonder if any of the asian men / women on here would feel able to give their own views on the matter.
So, a serious question. I wonder if any of the asian men / women on here would feel able to give their own views on the matter.
Warming the Bed
I saw this post at the time but was holding my tongue. I guess it is something I feel the need to respond to now.
There are few asian people at clubs because they are made to feel unwelcome. Prejudices & stereotypes are very common, atleast in my experience, so much so that I have given up going.
I have been in the scene for the past 8 years, having been to a number of clubs in Manchester, the Midlands & the South East. I wll admit that I have an additional strike against me by virtue of being a single male but what I have come across is suspicion & hostility. And internet sites are not much better.
Not to say that there were not pleasant meets & nice people but they have been few and far between.
p.s: Not bitter, just resigned. Maybe there is an opportunity there to set up a specialist facility.
There are few asian people at clubs because they are made to feel unwelcome. Prejudices & stereotypes are very common, atleast in my experience, so much so that I have given up going.
I have been in the scene for the past 8 years, having been to a number of clubs in Manchester, the Midlands & the South East. I wll admit that I have an additional strike against me by virtue of being a single male but what I have come across is suspicion & hostility. And internet sites are not much better.
Not to say that there were not pleasant meets & nice people but they have been few and far between.
p.s: Not bitter, just resigned. Maybe there is an opportunity there to set up a specialist facility.
Warming the Bed
Thanks for the replies. Am on IE 6, waiting to download IE 7. Use Firefox for all my other browsing but problems with viewing images here that I notified to Admin a while ago by email, possibly an interaction with Adblock & Filterset G etc. Am forced to use IE here. (Steve replied, do I have the right Steve? What happened to Mark / Helen anyway, I have been away for a while)
Anyway, will try out with Firefox this time just for the chat, try logging in with both browsers simultaneously.
Anyway, will try out with Firefox this time just for the chat, try logging in with both browsers simultaneously.
Warming the Bed
Can't see any OP's / MODs etc around today, hoping someone can help. I have not used the chatroom very much but for some reason I have received a couple of popups today when I have been in the rooms.
I normally block popups so I get a message in IE saying there is a popup & do I want to allow it. On both occasions, clicking to allow the popup has led to me being kicked from the server as it says I am already logged in.
Where is this going wrong?
Thanks
I normally block popups so I get a message in IE saying there is a popup & do I want to allow it. On both occasions, clicking to allow the popup has led to me being kicked from the server as it says I am already logged in.
Where is this going wrong?
Thanks
Warming the Bed
Mark & Helen do a great job of running this site, a few of the users on the other hand could do with improving their behaviour.
Frecklebird, leaving a person hanging on for a reply is worse than upsetting me by saying I am not your type.
Judy, If someone behaves like this, I dont want to know them, I dont care if you consider it aggressive or not.
The story is short & sweet. Post on board - they PM me asking me to email them - I do so (civil clean message) - no response to a timed event - I end up wasting 3 hrs waiting for email that never arrives, a common enough occurence.
I am not looking for a sympathy fuck, I have been around for a while & I limit myself to playing with people who treat each other with respect. If me being direct causes some others to avoid me, so be it.
I am floating the possibility that we might need to have some sort of feedback mechanism onsite.
There seems to be the idea that because there are more single men around, they can be treated like dirt. That is not to say that there are not any single men around who are jerks, they deserve to be tarred with the same brush too.
Lorri / BaldEagle, you have to look closely at that phrase to discern the insult.
Frecklebird, leaving a person hanging on for a reply is worse than upsetting me by saying I am not your type.
Judy, If someone behaves like this, I dont want to know them, I dont care if you consider it aggressive or not.
The story is short & sweet. Post on board - they PM me asking me to email them - I do so (civil clean message) - no response to a timed event - I end up wasting 3 hrs waiting for email that never arrives, a common enough occurence.
I am not looking for a sympathy fuck, I have been around for a while & I limit myself to playing with people who treat each other with respect. If me being direct causes some others to avoid me, so be it.
I am floating the possibility that we might need to have some sort of feedback mechanism onsite.
There seems to be the idea that because there are more single men around, they can be treated like dirt. That is not to say that there are not any single men around who are jerks, they deserve to be tarred with the same brush too.
Lorri / BaldEagle, you have to look closely at that phrase to discern the insult.
Warming the Bed
If people cant be bothered to reply to messages........
What are they doing here on this site?
And should different rules apply to men / women & couples?
As far as I am concerned, if people are ill mannered enough to not reply in response to a message they have initiated, they have no business complaining about their lack of responses, they pretty well deserve it.
No, this is not a case of sour grapes or someone not getting my mail, they PM'd me to email them with a pic. It would surely follow that when they recieve it, they let me know one way or the other as to what the decision is.
Having a vagina or two does not make them more worthy members of the community or allow them to lord it over others.
What are they doing here on this site?
And should different rules apply to men / women & couples?
As far as I am concerned, if people are ill mannered enough to not reply in response to a message they have initiated, they have no business complaining about their lack of responses, they pretty well deserve it.
No, this is not a case of sour grapes or someone not getting my mail, they PM'd me to email them with a pic. It would surely follow that when they recieve it, they let me know one way or the other as to what the decision is.
Having a vagina or two does not make them more worthy members of the community or allow them to lord it over others.
Warming the Bed
If people could indicate their level of comfort with sharing invasive items please.
Currently have 1 set of probes.
Am willing to offer them on an "alcohol based sterilisation regimen". Use condoms etc on top of that.
If people want to buy their own, then can try to arrange for a cheap source.
Sal
Currently have 1 set of probes.
Am willing to offer them on an "alcohol based sterilisation regimen". Use condoms etc on top of that.
If people want to buy their own, then can try to arrange for a cheap source.
Sal
