First and foremost can I say, I do not believe the law in Uganda that says you can and probably will be jailed for life if proven guilty of being gay is wrong, it is wrong to make being gay in any form illegal.
But a UK minister saying we will look very closely at applications for asylum of people applying to the UK for asylum on the grounds they are gay is also wrong.
We cannot accept breaking the laws of your Nation grounds for granting asylum here, it is not our place to decide which laws Nations have are right or wrong just because they differ from our own.
We can try and get Uganda to change their minds, we can impose sanctions, we can lobby other Nations to join us in our desire to get them to change their minds but we cannot harbour people who break laws no matter how sympathetic we are, it would also open a loop hole whereby any Ugandan wishing to come to the UK simply has to claim to be gay.
One suggestion was to stop aid for aids, a Ugandan spokesperson said most of the aid does not reach the people who need it but then went on to say it should not be stopped, confusing to say the least because if only a trickle of the aid reaches those that need it why should we not stop it.
Sadly that is the case with a lot of aid paid to such Countries.
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Uganda - gay law
Quote by MidsCouple24
First and foremost can I say, I do not believe the law in Uganda that says you can and probably will be jailed for life if proven guilty of being gay is wrong, it is wrong to make being gay in any form illegal.
But a UK minister saying we will look very closely at applications for asylum of people applying to the UK for asylum on the grounds they are gay is also wrong.
We cannot accept breaking the laws of your Nation grounds for granting asylum here, it is not our place to decide which laws Nations have are right or wrong just because they differ from our own.
We can try and get Uganda to change their minds, we can impose sanctions, we can lobby other Nations to join us in our desire to get them to change their minds but we cannot harbour people who break laws no matter how sympathetic we are, it would also open a loop hole whereby any Ugandan wishing to come to the UK simply has to claim to be gay.
One suggestion was to stop aid for aids, a Ugandan spokesperson said most of the aid does not reach the people who need it but then went on to say it should not be stopped, confusing to say the least because if only a trickle of the aid reaches those that need it why should we not stop it.
Sadly that is the case with a lot of aid paid to such Countries.
Are you not contradicting yourself in your opening paragraph?
sorry but totally disagree. If some one is being persecuted because of their sexuality, surely other nations, including us must look sympathetically at their plight. Its not as if we going to get a flood of people coming over here. If we got more than 10 or 20 I would be amazed. The African nations, tend to have more towards the French speaking nations, and so think they will get more than us.
You say we as a nation can not tell other nations the rules and laws to adhere to. I am sorry but we can and we do. We have a bill of human rights, and stopping people from having the right to chose their sexuality is something we surely can not condone.
I will gladly stand out and speak out against this, and am proud of Britain for offering shelter against such prosecution.
You say we as a nation can not tell other nations the rules and laws to adhere to. I am sorry but we can and we do. We have a bill of human rights, and stopping people from having the right to chose their sexuality is something we surely can not condone.
I will gladly stand out and speak out against this, and am proud of Britain for offering shelter against such prosecution.
Sexpert
Quote by MidsCouple24
First and foremost can I say, I do not believe the law in Uganda that says you can and probably will be jailed for life if proven guilty of being gay is wrong, it is wrong to make being gay in any form illegal.
But a UK minister saying we will look very closely at applications for asylum of people applying to the UK for asylum on the grounds they are gay is also wrong.
We cannot accept breaking the laws of your Nation grounds for granting asylum here, it is not our place to decide which laws Nations have are right or wrong just because they differ from our own.
We can try and get Uganda to change their minds, we can impose sanctions, we can lobby other Nations to join us in our desire to get them to change their minds but we cannot harbour people who break laws no matter how sympathetic we are, it would also open a loop hole whereby any Ugandan wishing to come to the UK simply has to claim to be gay.
One suggestion was to stop aid for aids, a Ugandan spokesperson said most of the aid does not reach the people who need it but then went on to say it should not be stopped, confusing to say the least because if only a trickle of the aid reaches those that need it why should we not stop it.
Sadly that is the case with a lot of aid paid to such Countries.
Is this not persecution of a gender? Think they have every right to expect sanctuary. Not only are gay you men and woman being persecuted, you face arrest if you knowing don't inform the authorities of someone you know is gay! Can't think of any group of people more deserving.
Quote by deancannock
sorry but totally disagree. If some one is being persecuted because of their sexuality, surely other nations, including us must look sympathetically at their plight. Its not as if we going to get a flood of people coming over here. If we got more than 10 or 20 I would be amazed. The African nations, tend to have more towards the French speaking nations, and so think they will get more than us.
You say we as a nation can not tell other nations the rules and laws to adhere to. I am sorry but we can and we do. We have a bill of human rights, and stopping people from having the right to chose their sexuality is something we surely can not condone.
I will gladly stand out and speak out against this, and am proud of Britain for offering shelter against such prosecution.
Whilst I'm in agreement with your principles on this issue, I don't see why you think Ugandans would tend to move to French speaking nations rather than the UK. Uganda only gained independence from the UK in the 1960s so the people will have a lot more in common with the UK rather than France.
Quote by deancannock
sorry but totally disagree. If some one is being persecuted because of their sexuality, surely other nations, including us must look sympathetically at their plight.
Not our fight and whilst it's regrettable the current the law in Uganda regarding gay people I'm really tired of the likes of the UK and the US keep sticking their oar into another countries business.
People are persecuted the world over and for a multitude of reasons, we either fight everyones fight for them enbloc or we do something that rarely seems to be the norm and that is let them get on with it and find their own way which inevitably they will.
Sorry in my opening statement I meant to say that I do not support the new law in Uganda, I believe it is totally wrong.
What France does is up to them, I have no interest in their decision regarding people seeking asylum in France.
So where do we draw the line, we have in the past extradited people back to their own Nation because they have broken laws of that Nation, laws that are not always against our own laws.
As an example in the UK cannabis is illegal to grow or posses, in some countries it is legal, yet we still expect those Nations to extradite people to the UK if we find they own a cannabis factory in the UK.
I don't know all the ins and outs but I do think we should be fighting the law (in a peaceful way) that Uganda has imposed rather than support anyone who is breaking a law because it sets a precedent for others who break other laws.
But as I have always said, a good debate in here might change my opinion which is why I like to discuss such topics
What France does is up to them, I have no interest in their decision regarding people seeking asylum in France.
So where do we draw the line, we have in the past extradited people back to their own Nation because they have broken laws of that Nation, laws that are not always against our own laws.
As an example in the UK cannabis is illegal to grow or posses, in some countries it is legal, yet we still expect those Nations to extradite people to the UK if we find they own a cannabis factory in the UK.
I don't know all the ins and outs but I do think we should be fighting the law (in a peaceful way) that Uganda has imposed rather than support anyone who is breaking a law because it sets a precedent for others who break other laws.
But as I have always said, a good debate in here might change my opinion which is why I like to discuss such topics
Sex God
Quote by Toots
sorry but totally disagree. If some one is being persecuted because of their sexuality, surely other nations, including us must look sympathetically at their plight.
Not our fight and whilst it's regrettable the current the law in Uganda regarding gay people I'm really tired of the likes of the UK and the US keep sticking their oar into another countries business.
People are persecuted the world over and for a multitude of reasons, we either fight everyones fight for them enbloc or we do something that rarely seems to be the norm and that is let them get on with it and find their own way which inevitably they will.
Totally agree !! Lets just try keeping out of everyone else's problems for a while !
John
Quote by Geordiecpl2001
sorry but totally disagree. If some one is being persecuted because of their sexuality, surely other nations, including us must look sympathetically at their plight.
Not our fight and whilst it's regrettable the current the law in Uganda regarding gay people I'm really tired of the likes of the UK and the US keep sticking their oar into another countries business.
People are persecuted the world over and for a multitude of reasons, we either fight everyones fight for them enbloc or we do something that rarely seems to be the norm and that is let them get on with it and find their own way which inevitably they will.
Totally agree !! Lets just try keeping out of everyone else's problems for a while !
John
So your happy to see violations of human rights the world over. Fine your choice. I for one will stand up for what is right in this world. Your choice of your sexuality is a right every man or woman should have, without fear of prosecution or victimisation.
Quote by deancannock
sorry but totally disagree. If some one is being persecuted because of their sexuality, surely other nations, including us must look sympathetically at their plight.
Not our fight and whilst it's regrettable the current the law in Uganda regarding gay people I'm really tired of the likes of the UK and the US keep sticking their oar into another countries business.
People are persecuted the world over and for a multitude of reasons, we either fight everyones fight for them enbloc or we do something that rarely seems to be the norm and that is let them get on with it and find their own way which inevitably they will.
Totally agree !! Lets just try keeping out of everyone else's problems for a while !
John
So your happy to see violations of human rights the world over. Fine your choice. I for one will stand up for what is right in this world. Your choice of your sexuality is a right every man or woman should have, without fear of prosecution or victimisation.
Where do I say I'm happy with it? But I'm not so naive as to think that our interference is going to directly cause the Ugandan Govt to change policy.
You're just using headlines, but think about it, the Chinese continually appear to abuse human rights but other than a token 'slap on the wrist' from the UK govt there is nothing much else we do and why is that? Most likely because A/ We can't beat them and B/ We need them more than they need us.....Do you buy support China's violations of Human Rights? or do you vote with your feet and buy nothing Chinese? I think we know that answer.
Uganda has little to offer given china probably owns most of mineral rights to it, so the UK Govt probably think there is nothing much to be lost by standing up against them re the recent policy switch on Gay people but for nothing more than a bit of headlining.
For too long we the UK have been poking our nose in other countries matters, not only has this had a negative impact on the UK globally it's also made us grossly unpopular where in some instances some countries have become an almost no go for us.
So yes, sometimes it's best to do less and by doing so hopefully achieve much more, this for me is one such occasion.
Sex God
Wow, this is a complex issue and no mistake.
Te law is the law in my opinion. In the UK some of it is established through parliament and some of it is tort, however the constitutions of other countries will always differ from ours in some way, and Uganda is no different.
There are over 100,000 Ugandan British living in the UK and rightly or wrongly immigration will continue, it's a fact of life.
I personally am appalled by the Law in Uganda today which, like many other countries, is against what we in a democracy consider to be human rights.
However there is no international accord on legislation for human rights and therefore we as the UK rely on political pressure and treaties to try and sway opposing governments.
If someone from another country breaks our law we ask for them to be extradited to face our justice. If the other country does not object because they think we might torture the accused then they may grant the extradition. But that means that we have to have a legal extradition treaty in the first place. Likewise if one of our citizens breaks the law elsewhere they have to face the same system. There are more than enough of them doing it throughout the world at this present time.
Immigration is such a big topic in UK politics that to open the doors to any group is political suicide to be honest. I do not believe for one instant that it is right to persecute anyone for their sexuality, but neither do I believe that we should open our doors to thousands of Ugandan gays and/or pretenders. I have faith that at some point pressure will be bought to bear to alter the situation.
We as common folk do not know whether this is part of some grand scheme. Maybe the Ugandan Government were hoping that by passing the law we would take in a load of immigrants and solve them a few problems? Maybe our Government knew this and released this statement to make the Ugandan officials think twice? It might all be a double bluff.
Within the next ten years, probably by 2020, we will be at war in Africa. I wonder how many people will agree with us 'going in' at the time, and how many of them will moan about Ugandan immigration then.
Te law is the law in my opinion. In the UK some of it is established through parliament and some of it is tort, however the constitutions of other countries will always differ from ours in some way, and Uganda is no different.
There are over 100,000 Ugandan British living in the UK and rightly or wrongly immigration will continue, it's a fact of life.
I personally am appalled by the Law in Uganda today which, like many other countries, is against what we in a democracy consider to be human rights.
However there is no international accord on legislation for human rights and therefore we as the UK rely on political pressure and treaties to try and sway opposing governments.
If someone from another country breaks our law we ask for them to be extradited to face our justice. If the other country does not object because they think we might torture the accused then they may grant the extradition. But that means that we have to have a legal extradition treaty in the first place. Likewise if one of our citizens breaks the law elsewhere they have to face the same system. There are more than enough of them doing it throughout the world at this present time.
Immigration is such a big topic in UK politics that to open the doors to any group is political suicide to be honest. I do not believe for one instant that it is right to persecute anyone for their sexuality, but neither do I believe that we should open our doors to thousands of Ugandan gays and/or pretenders. I have faith that at some point pressure will be bought to bear to alter the situation.
We as common folk do not know whether this is part of some grand scheme. Maybe the Ugandan Government were hoping that by passing the law we would take in a load of immigrants and solve them a few problems? Maybe our Government knew this and released this statement to make the Ugandan officials think twice? It might all be a double bluff.
Within the next ten years, probably by 2020, we will be at war in Africa. I wonder how many people will agree with us 'going in' at the time, and how many of them will moan about Ugandan immigration then.
What if we did just decide to help the gay and lesbians that come to us and ask for asylum and left it at that, what about the thousands of gay and lesbian Ugandans that could not get to the UK, do we just leave them to their fate.
Is it not better for tem all if we use our influence with the Ugandan Government and Nations who will support us to get this law changed and protect them all and in so doing send a message to other Nations that might be considering doing the same ?
Is it not better for tem all if we use our influence with the Ugandan Government and Nations who will support us to get this law changed and protect them all and in so doing send a message to other Nations that might be considering doing the same ?
Sex God
Have you changed your opinion already? You said the start of this thread that we shouldn't allow any of them in because they are gay.
There is a big difference in granting asylum to those facing torture and death, and for those who face jail for falling foul of a country's laws.
Russia is pushing for anti-gay laws too.
Presumably we'll be allowing in those Russians as well?
And then every other countries' nationals if they face jail for their sexualilty?
Why stop at gays? Why not anyone who faces jail, regardless of the offence?
And what should we do with immigrants who break our laws that warrant custodial sentences?
Russia is pushing for anti-gay laws too.
Presumably we'll be allowing in those Russians as well?
And then every other countries' nationals if they face jail for their sexualilty?
Why stop at gays? Why not anyone who faces jail, regardless of the offence?
And what should we do with immigrants who break our laws that warrant custodial sentences?
Quote by Trevaunance
Have you changed your opinion already? You said the start of this thread that we shouldn't allow any of them in because they are gay.
No I did not, I said Should we ? and not because they are gay but because they are breaking the laws of their Nation and therefore the Nation has the right to imprison people who break heir laws of their Country just as we have.
The fact that I and most others think that this particular is wrong and barbaric is another question. We are right to disagree with other Nations laws but who are we to impose our will upon them ? How many other laws around the world do we disagree with, the age of consent, the legal age to marry, the right to own a gun, the speed limit, forced circumcision, the banned use of condoms, public flogging, public stoning, the death penalty, legalisation of certain drugs, euthanasia, prostitution for example.
Let us not forget that it was illegal to perform a sexual act with a member of the same sex not that long ago in the United Kingdom, we learnt that this was wrong a passed laws that actually made it legal at a certain age.
Hetrosexual acts do not have that protection because it has never been challenged in our courts for two consenting adults of the opposite sex to have sexual encounters.
Apply for planning permission for a swingers club in the UK and you could be turned down because the relative Council "do not think that such a premises is wanted in the area".
Apply for planning permission for a gay sauna and the council could not refuse the application on those grounds, they would have to use, residential upset, noise or parking reasons for example because it is a legitimate business recognised in law.
Most Swingers clubs in the UK are registered as Private Members Health Clubs, Naturist Clubs or Health Spa's as these are the only businesses of a similar nature that the Council can grant applications for, all gay saunas in the UK are registered as Gay Saunas.
Hetrosexual acts do not have that protection because it has never been challenged in our courts for two consenting adults of the opposite sex to have sexual encounters.
Apply for planning permission for a swingers club in the UK and you could be turned down because the relative Council "do not think that such a premises is wanted in the area".
Apply for planning permission for a gay sauna and the council could not refuse the application on those grounds, they would have to use, residential upset, noise or parking reasons for example because it is a legitimate business recognised in law.
Most Swingers clubs in the UK are registered as Private Members Health Clubs, Naturist Clubs or Health Spa's as these are the only businesses of a similar nature that the Council can grant applications for, all gay saunas in the UK are registered as Gay Saunas.
Quote by MidsCouple24
Insert Copious Amounts of Waffle (jeepers I thought I had the market cornered on that.)
Yes yes yes, lovely and all that re swingers clubs but how is it anything to do with your original topic of Uganda - gay law?
------
Quote by deancannock
saw this saying on Facebook other day....and sums it up for me
Morality is doing what is right, regardless of what you are told.
Doing what your told, regardless of if its right....is blind obedience.
I would rather walk round with my eyes open.
If your eyes were indeed open you'd see the bigger picture in as much as you're being drip fed/pussy whipped by the Govt into making you think that A/ They give a hoot for gay people in Uganda, B/ That whatever you do/say/think is in the grand scheme of things isn't going to make a jot of difference.
and although not seen on Facebook cos I don't use it Confucius said 'study the past if you would define the future' by us (the UK) keep burrowing our way into the affairs of other countries continually demonstrates we seem not to learned from our past.
Sometimes doing nothing has more of an impact that shouting from the highest rafter.
suffice to say we all have the option to read posts or ignore them.Quote by MidsCouple24
Let us not forget that it was illegal to perform a sexual act with a member of the same sex not that long ago in the United Kingdom, we learnt that this was wrong a passed laws that actually made it legal at a certain age.
Hetrosexual acts do not have that protection because it has never been challenged in our courts for two consenting adults of the opposite sex to have sexual encounters.
Apply for planning permission for a swingers club in the UK and you could be turned down because the relative Council "do not think that such a premises is wanted in the area".
Apply for planning permission for a gay sauna and the council could not refuse the application on those grounds, they would have to use, residential upset, noise or parking reasons for example because it is a legitimate business recognised in law.
Most Swingers clubs in the UK are registered as Private Members Health Clubs, Naturist Clubs or Health Spa's as these are the only businesses of a similar nature that the Council can grant applications for, all gay saunas in the UK are registered as Gay Saunas.
Sorry Mids, but you're talking rubbish again. Please when making comparisons compare apples to apples and not to oranges.
When applying to the council for a gay sauna licence then the appropriate comparison would be to just a sauna, not a swingers club! And of course the council can refuse it on the grounds of being a sauna! whosoever it was for would have no bearing on their decision, but it may have bearing on the publics planning objections, which the council have to take in to account.
Anyway, back to the topic. The argument is not about whether the laws in Uganda are at fault, the argument is about should we accept persecution as a gay person be a valid reason for asylum in this country.
As far as I am concerned then yes it is. you can not "help" being gay. It is part of your genetic makeup. You can not be cured, You can not suppress it. Therefore it obeys the criteria for asylum, in fact it is a better reason for asylum than for persecution for your religious beliefs!!!
Sex God
Quote by Rogue_Trader
Let us not forget that it was illegal to perform a sexual act with a member of the same sex not that long ago in the United Kingdom, we learnt that this was wrong a passed laws that actually made it legal at a certain age.
Hetrosexual acts do not have that protection because it has never been challenged in our courts for two consenting adults of the opposite sex to have sexual encounters.
Apply for planning permission for a swingers club in the UK and you could be turned down because the relative Council "do not think that such a premises is wanted in the area".
Apply for planning permission for a gay sauna and the council could not refuse the application on those grounds, they would have to use, residential upset, noise or parking reasons for example because it is a legitimate business recognised in law.
Most Swingers clubs in the UK are registered as Private Members Health Clubs, Naturist Clubs or Health Spa's as these are the only businesses of a similar nature that the Council can grant applications for, all gay saunas in the UK are registered as Gay Saunas.
Sorry Mids, but you're talking rubbish again. Please when making comparisons compare apples to apples and not to oranges.
When applying to the council for a gay sauna licence then the appropriate comparison would be to just a sauna, not a swingers club! And of course the council can refuse it on the grounds of being a sauna! whosoever it was for would have no bearing on their decision, but it may have bearing on the publics planning objections, which the council have to take in to account.
Anyway, back to the topic. The argument is not about whether the laws in Uganda are at fault, the argument is about should we accept persecution as a gay person be a valid reason for asylum in this country.
As far as I am concerned then yes it is. you can not "help" being gay. It is part of your genetic makeup. You can not be cured, You can not suppress it. Therefore it obeys the criteria for asylum, in fact it is a better reason for asylum than for persecution for your religious beliefs!!!
Then do we grant asylum to adulterers (sp?) from Saudi, who certainly do face jail, or worse, for that act? You could argue they are being persecuted for their sexuality. After all, it has been established that some people have a gene that makes them much more prone to serial philandering.
John
quote
Then do we grant asylum to adulterers (sp?) from Saudi, who certainly do face jail, or worse, for that act? You could argue they are being persecuted for their sexuality. After all, it has been established that some people have a gene that makes them much more prone to serial philandering.
John
quote
Another valid point and why I asked the question "where do we draw the line"
Then do we grant asylum to adulterers (sp?) from Saudi, who certainly do face jail, or worse, for that act? You could argue they are being persecuted for their sexuality. After all, it has been established that some people have a gene that makes them much more prone to serial philandering.
John
quote
Another valid point and why I asked the question "where do we draw the line"
Quote
Sorry Mids, but you're talking rubbish again. Please when making comparisons compare apples to apples and not to oranges.
When applying to the council for a gay sauna licence then the appropriate comparison would be to just a sauna, not a swingers club! And of course the council can refuse it on the grounds of being a sauna! whosoever it was for would have no bearing on their decision, but it may have bearing on the publics planning objections, which the council have to take in to account.
Anyway, back to the topic. The argument is not about whether the laws in Uganda are at fault, the argument is about should we accept persecution as a gay person be a valid reason for asylum in this country.
As far as I am concerned then yes it is. you can not "help" being gay. It is part of your genetic makeup. You can not be cured, You can not suppress it. Therefore it obeys the criteria for asylum, in fact it is a better reason for asylum than for persecution for your religious beliefs!!!
Quote
How can you apologise to me for insulting me ? if your sorry you wouldn't abuse me saying I am talking rubbish, I am stating a opinion and in the UK I am allowed to do that or am I wrong, do I need to seek asylum somewhere for having an opinion ?
I have said that my opinion may be wrong and that I opened the thread to listen to other people's opinions so that I might ponder and perhaps even change my opinion, I did not start the thread to hear people say that anyone who doesn't agree with them is talking rubbish, I afford you the courtesy of listening to what you have to say without abusing you.
As to what you say, I see valid points in it, we hit puberty, we are what we are sexually, it is not an illness to be gay, it is not wrong, it is human make-up, nobody has decided to be straight, gay or bisexual, I know that, and yes it would be nice to help people persecuted for what they are, but is the UK in a position to help everyone in need that knocks on our door, as has been said it is not just being gay, it is being forced into marriage at an early age, it is being persecuted for having an affair or swinging and it is many other things.
I also worry that whilst it may not open a flood gate for the Gays of Uganda but it may give people in other Nations a viable excuse to seek asylum, what about the Nigerians who decide to fly from Uganda to the UK and use the "gay" excuse saying they have resided in Uganda for years, what about the Russians and Arabians or the Pakistanis who will say they are being forced to marry ?
Sorry Mids, but you're talking rubbish again. Please when making comparisons compare apples to apples and not to oranges.
When applying to the council for a gay sauna licence then the appropriate comparison would be to just a sauna, not a swingers club! And of course the council can refuse it on the grounds of being a sauna! whosoever it was for would have no bearing on their decision, but it may have bearing on the publics planning objections, which the council have to take in to account.
Anyway, back to the topic. The argument is not about whether the laws in Uganda are at fault, the argument is about should we accept persecution as a gay person be a valid reason for asylum in this country.
As far as I am concerned then yes it is. you can not "help" being gay. It is part of your genetic makeup. You can not be cured, You can not suppress it. Therefore it obeys the criteria for asylum, in fact it is a better reason for asylum than for persecution for your religious beliefs!!!
Quote
How can you apologise to me for insulting me ? if your sorry you wouldn't abuse me saying I am talking rubbish, I am stating a opinion and in the UK I am allowed to do that or am I wrong, do I need to seek asylum somewhere for having an opinion ?
I have said that my opinion may be wrong and that I opened the thread to listen to other people's opinions so that I might ponder and perhaps even change my opinion, I did not start the thread to hear people say that anyone who doesn't agree with them is talking rubbish, I afford you the courtesy of listening to what you have to say without abusing you.
As to what you say, I see valid points in it, we hit puberty, we are what we are sexually, it is not an illness to be gay, it is not wrong, it is human make-up, nobody has decided to be straight, gay or bisexual, I know that, and yes it would be nice to help people persecuted for what they are, but is the UK in a position to help everyone in need that knocks on our door, as has been said it is not just being gay, it is being forced into marriage at an early age, it is being persecuted for having an affair or swinging and it is many other things.
I also worry that whilst it may not open a flood gate for the Gays of Uganda but it may give people in other Nations a viable excuse to seek asylum, what about the Nigerians who decide to fly from Uganda to the UK and use the "gay" excuse saying they have resided in Uganda for years, what about the Russians and Arabians or the Pakistanis who will say they are being forced to marry ?
Sex God
Quote by MidsCouple24
Quote
Sorry Mids, but you're talking rubbish again.
Quote
I am stating a opinion and in the UK I am allowed to do that or am I wrong, do I need to seek asylum somewhere for having an opinion ?
as is rogues right to his opinion that he feels you are talking rubbish !!
Quote by Geordiecpl2001
After all, it has been established that some people have a gene that makes them much more prone to serial philandering.
John
HaHaHa
well Caligula suffered from it and was assassinated and Dominique Strauss-khan will probably end up in jail, so in respect of that self-control should be the order of the day.
Quote by MidsCouple24
How can you apologise to me for insulting me ? if your sorry you wouldn't abuse me saying I am talking rubbish, I am stating a opinion and in the UK I am allowed to do that or am I wrong, do I need to seek asylum somewhere for having an opinion ?
I have said that my opinion may be wrong and that I opened the thread to listen to other people's opinions so that I might ponder and perhaps even change my opinion, I did not start the thread to hear people say that anyone who doesn't agree with them is talking rubbish, I afford you the courtesy of listening to what you have to say without abusing you.
As to what you say, I see valid points in it, we hit puberty, we are what we are sexually, it is not an illness to be gay, it is not wrong, it is human make-up, nobody has decided to be straight, gay or bisexual, I know that, and yes it would be nice to help people persecuted for what they are, but is the UK in a position to help everyone in need that knocks on our door, as has been said it is not just being gay, it is being forced into marriage at an early age, it is being persecuted for having an affair or swinging and it is many other things.
I also worry that whilst it may not open a flood gate for the Gays of Uganda but it may give people in other Nations a viable excuse to seek asylum, what about the Nigerians who decide to fly from Uganda to the UK and use the "gay" excuse saying they have resided in Uganda for years, what about the Russians and Arabians or the Pakistanis who will say they are being forced to marry ?
Stating you are talking rubbish is not abuse. It was just pointing out the total twaddle you had written.
Again I'm sorry if you have such a sensitive demeanour, but this isn't fluffy bunny club. We're all adults here and as such should be able to take comments on the chin.
I really can not believe some of the comments above:
People trying to equate the right to own a gun with the right to be gay !!!!
People trying to equate the right to have an affair with the right to be gay !!!!
You don't make a choice to be gay.
People seem to think we shall be flooded with gay Ugandan's flocking to the UK..lol
Quick google shows you that 75% of applicants for asylum are refused !!! The latest figure I could find showed that in 2009 less than 5000 asylum seekers were allowed into the UK.
In the debate about immigration, a mere tear drop in the ocean. I for one, am proud of Britain's tradition of offering sanctuary, for those being politically persecuted.
People trying to equate the right to own a gun with the right to be gay !!!!
People trying to equate the right to have an affair with the right to be gay !!!!
You don't make a choice to be gay.
People seem to think we shall be flooded with gay Ugandan's flocking to the UK..lol
Quick google shows you that 75% of applicants for asylum are refused !!! The latest figure I could find showed that in 2009 less than 5000 asylum seekers were allowed into the UK.
In the debate about immigration, a mere tear drop in the ocean. I for one, am proud of Britain's tradition of offering sanctuary, for those being politically persecuted.
Quote by Geordiecpl2001
Let us not forget that it was illegal to perform a sexual act with a member of the same sex not that long ago in the United Kingdom, we learnt that this was wrong a passed laws that actually made it legal at a certain age.
Hetrosexual acts do not have that protection because it has never been challenged in our courts for two consenting adults of the opposite sex to have sexual encounters.
Apply for planning permission for a swingers club in the UK and you could be turned down because the relative Council "do not think that such a premises is wanted in the area".
Apply for planning permission for a gay sauna and the council could not refuse the application on those grounds, they would have to use, residential upset, noise or parking reasons for example because it is a legitimate business recognised in law.
Most Swingers clubs in the UK are registered as Private Members Health Clubs, Naturist Clubs or Health Spa's as these are the only businesses of a similar nature that the Council can grant applications for, all gay saunas in the UK are registered as Gay Saunas.
Sorry Mids, but you're talking rubbish again. Please when making comparisons compare apples to apples and not to oranges.
When applying to the council for a gay sauna licence then the appropriate comparison would be to just a sauna, not a swingers club! And of course the council can refuse it on the grounds of being a sauna! whosoever it was for would have no bearing on their decision, but it may have bearing on the publics planning objections, which the council have to take in to account.
Anyway, back to the topic. The argument is not about whether the laws in Uganda are at fault, the argument is about should we accept persecution as a gay person be a valid reason for asylum in this country.
As far as I am concerned then yes it is. you can not "help" being gay. It is part of your genetic makeup. You can not be cured, You can not suppress it. Therefore it obeys the criteria for asylum, in fact it is a better reason for asylum than for persecution for your religious beliefs!!!
Then do we grant asylum to adulterers (sp?) from Saudi, who certainly do face jail, or worse, for that act? You could argue they are being persecuted for their sexuality. After all, it has been established that some people have a gene that makes them much more prone to serial philandering.
John
In that case, hopefully the 'single' guys cheating on here will be given an easier ride, as obviously they can't help it!
Quote by MidsCouple24
How can you apologise to me for insulting me ? if your sorry you wouldn't abuse me saying I am talking rubbish, I am stating a opinion and in the UK I am allowed to do that or am I wrong, do I need to seek asylum somewhere for having an opinion ?
No, you were stating supposed facts about planning and licence applications. That is what Rouge was rubbishing.
What a short memory you have, it's only 2 minutes since you're defending your right to call someone a liar and time waster. One law for you and another for everyone else?
