A lot of discussion about married and single men being involved in this site...surely this is a case of mismatched morals? Those people who complain about single men wanting a quick f**k obviously disagree with that man's moral outlook of wanting sexual fun with no strings. Those who complain about married men wanting extra-curricular fun obviously believe that sex with other people is only permissable when both partners agree but the married men clearly believe there is nothing wrong with it.
Surely as well as trying to find like-minded people who are into similar sexual pursuits, the challenge on this site is to find like-minded people who have a similar moral position?
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A single case of married morals?
Sex God
I don't think many people here have any problem with single males' desire for a 'quick f*ck'; there are some couples who simply are not seeking single males for fun (ie they don't disagree with his morals, they just don't want him)
And yes those who disagree with men having extra curricular fun may believe that sex is only permissible when both partners know. This means that they are not involved in any cheating that the married man is looking to do. There will most likely be couples or indeed singles who might become involved in a cheating husband's (or wife's) activities, but they aren't likely to shout it from the rooftops either. I have yet to see an advert for a couple or single seeking a married man (or woman) who wants discreet extra marital fun.
And yes those who disagree with men having extra curricular fun may believe that sex is only permissible when both partners know. This means that they are not involved in any cheating that the married man is looking to do. There will most likely be couples or indeed singles who might become involved in a cheating husband's (or wife's) activities, but they aren't likely to shout it from the rooftops either. I have yet to see an advert for a couple or single seeking a married man (or woman) who wants discreet extra marital fun.
Sex God
Just a little query here...are you a single male wanting a 'quick f*ck' or a married male seeking extra marital fun?
A considered reply - thank you - but the notion of "cheating" implies another moral judgement that clearly the married men on this site - including me - do not either agree with or do not have a problem with. Surely the notion of swinging, dogging and other such activities redefines traditional boundaries of what is and is not acceptable within either marriage or a committed relationship and as such bringing to bear these traditional concepts within a modern and more liberal moral setting perhaps is confusing old and new thinking.
Sex God
Obviously a question of where the boundaries are in a relationship isn't it? I would say that my boundaries and my husband's do not extend to lying or deceiving each other. We are both committed to each other and see swinging as a social as well as physical activity between three, four or more consenting, approving and willing adults. We are also honest with each other; we would not consider going behind the other's back for sex with anyone. Does your wife know that you are looking to swing, or do your boundaries extend to wanting sex without her knowledge? Peoples' views may be traditional or old fashioned but the fact that you see them that way won't actually make any difference to your cause. Do you hope to convince someone that they are old fashioned and to let go of their morals to f*ck you?
Sex God
Don't want to put a damper on this but have you read this
http://www.swingingheaven.co.uk/swingers-forum/viewtopic/19926.html
It took place only yesterday!
http://www.swingingheaven.co.uk/swingers-forum/viewtopic/19926.html
It took place only yesterday!
I think problems arise when married men treat swinging as sexual outlet to compensate for marriage problems. Swingers don't like to feel used in this way.
For me, using the 'moral judgement' line is a cop out really. You either are happy in a relasionship - and if you are, why risk it by lying? - or you're not, in which case fix it or end it.
Hxx
For me, using the 'moral judgement' line is a cop out really. You either are happy in a relasionship - and if you are, why risk it by lying? - or you're not, in which case fix it or end it.
Hxx
As a married couple who ruled out singles in our ad, I'll be quite honest.
The stereotype is one reason that we put no single males, however single males who we get to know and approach us for friendship / with sincerity are told the same thing, at the moment it's a no but keep in touch we may change our minds.
The reason for this is trust, as a female I do feel much more vulnerable with the thought of entertaining a single male, than a couple. Anyone knowing my history will no doubt understand why.
Having met a couple of "single" males, and with that I mean males who are genuinely partnerless and those who aren't, there are a few that would definitely be approached should we need that. And with that I mean that both Morbius and I would be comfortable with.
I have no time for any single, whether male or female who looks upon us as the easy answer to a quick shag. There may be people who want that but we don't for many reasons. One liners are binned without an answer, as are "see my ad" type (if you can't be bothered with a proper introduction then why should I look?).
Calista x
The stereotype is one reason that we put no single males, however single males who we get to know and approach us for friendship / with sincerity are told the same thing, at the moment it's a no but keep in touch we may change our minds.
The reason for this is trust, as a female I do feel much more vulnerable with the thought of entertaining a single male, than a couple. Anyone knowing my history will no doubt understand why.
Having met a couple of "single" males, and with that I mean males who are genuinely partnerless and those who aren't, there are a few that would definitely be approached should we need that. And with that I mean that both Morbius and I would be comfortable with.
I have no time for any single, whether male or female who looks upon us as the easy answer to a quick shag. There may be people who want that but we don't for many reasons. One liners are binned without an answer, as are "see my ad" type (if you can't be bothered with a proper introduction then why should I look?).
Calista x
Sex God
Quote by spinach
A considered reply - thank you - but the notion of "cheating" implies another moral judgement that clearly the married men on this site - including me - do not either agree with or do not have a problem with. Surely the notion of swinging, dogging and other such activities redefines traditional boundaries of what is and is not acceptable within either marriage or a committed relationship and as such bringing to bear these traditional concepts within a modern and more liberal moral setting perhaps is confusing old and new thinking.
I think one reason to this could be, (and this is my personal opinion) if I were in that situation where a married man approached us, the last thing I would want is to be on the angry end of a phone call when the wife of the married man finds out!
Also, and Im sure a lot of women do this, consider what would happen if they found out that their husband/partner was playing away and actively looking for sex outside the marriage.
Quote by Calista
I have no time for any single, whether male or female who looks upon us as the easy answer to a quick shag.
Calista x
Whilst the above statement is so obviously understandable, I don't think it's necessarily so that all singles are anymore after you only for a quick shag than a swinging couple will be.
On a more general note we shouldn't surely get into the question of morals? There are plenty of people not on this site who would regard the whole thing as immoral and perverted. To make any overt move to regard a particular group of peoples legal sexual desires as immoral is surely the pot calling the kettle black.
It was the moral element that I was deliberately trying to address which is why i started the new thread although we have strayed into the area of the previous thread. I was trying to make the point that when deciding whether to meet someone or not, a moral decision is made albeit subconsciously and it is a quesiton of finding some who either shares your moral point of view or does not have a problem with it. It certainly shows a high level of debate which is always enjoyable!
I have only just started to visit the forum and have been most interested to read the postings regarding married men looking for sex outside their marriage.
The principal view of those trying to take the moral high ground is that if a married man cannot swing with his wife or with her consent then he should not "swing".
I suspect that the majority of those holding this view are those who are in the enviable position of having a wife who is either agreeable to swinging with her husband or to him swinging alone.
I, and I suspect many other married guys, are not in that happy position. My wife in particular would not for a moment consider swinging, She has very deeply held religious views which I respect but do not agree with. (this is a topic of a certain church morolising to the masses, when it needs to clean up its own act. but is not for this site I suspect).
This leaves me with four choices:
1 Divorce: No thanks, I do love my wife. Am I being a hipocrite? Probably
2 An affair: No thanks, These can get very messy. Am I being sensible? Absolutely
3 Swing discreetly: This sounds better, I am only on this earth once and I am going to make the best of it. Am I being selfish? Maybe
4 Do nothing: Ah I see the moralists smile!, Will this make me a saint? I don't think so, and anyway, from what I hear the only thing to swing in heaven are the pearly gates!
Let me make it quite clear that I do know that many many couples do not want to meet with a married man playing away. I for one always respect that view, and always make it quite clear when replying to a couple that I am married. The choice is then theirs if they want to meet me or not.
I do wonder if some of the moralists would object with quite the same vigour if they were to meet as a couple with a married woman playing away?
The principal view of those trying to take the moral high ground is that if a married man cannot swing with his wife or with her consent then he should not "swing".
I suspect that the majority of those holding this view are those who are in the enviable position of having a wife who is either agreeable to swinging with her husband or to him swinging alone.
I, and I suspect many other married guys, are not in that happy position. My wife in particular would not for a moment consider swinging, She has very deeply held religious views which I respect but do not agree with. (this is a topic of a certain church morolising to the masses, when it needs to clean up its own act. but is not for this site I suspect).
This leaves me with four choices:
1 Divorce: No thanks, I do love my wife. Am I being a hipocrite? Probably
2 An affair: No thanks, These can get very messy. Am I being sensible? Absolutely
3 Swing discreetly: This sounds better, I am only on this earth once and I am going to make the best of it. Am I being selfish? Maybe
4 Do nothing: Ah I see the moralists smile!, Will this make me a saint? I don't think so, and anyway, from what I hear the only thing to swing in heaven are the pearly gates!
Let me make it quite clear that I do know that many many couples do not want to meet with a married man playing away. I for one always respect that view, and always make it quite clear when replying to a couple that I am married. The choice is then theirs if they want to meet me or not.
I do wonder if some of the moralists would object with quite the same vigour if they were to meet as a couple with a married woman playing away?
Quote by alan1954
(this is a topic of a certain church morolising to the masses, when it needs to clean up its own act. but is not for this site I suspect).
My position until now has been virtually identical to yours, except the differences are different, and in particular that we hold no very strong religious views.
Personally my view is that there may be a God, and if someone is standing on my head and threatening me with an iron bar I'll certainly be calling for his help. On the other hand, if there is a God, I'M SURE he does not owe allegiance to any organised religion who, without exception so far as I am aware, have caused so much damage and pain in the world they will all go to hell (if there is one).
I like being in religious buildings though, very peaceful, odd that.
I have to say my religious outlook is very similar to your own Musketeer, I cannot understand however how some folk can stand up and say that it is wrong for a married man to leave his wife totally in the dark about his "cheating". Yet are happy to "cheat" themselves even with their wife's consent
To my mind most of them too have taken the solemn marriage vow "to forsake all others" I don't remember the priest saying "except with your wife's and another married couples consent". Maybe he just forgot or I wasn't listening!
Some again take the easy way out and simply don't get married and have their consience salved by the thought that they are, legally at least, single.
If you are married you are all "cheating" on your vows whether your partners agree or not,the option simply was not there! It is a moral dilemma that I have had to wrestle with, And in time may decide to give in and forget about swinging,and go back to gluing Airfix kits together.
Hell, I sound like a bible basher don't I?? Pass the Vodka quick
To my mind most of them too have taken the solemn marriage vow "to forsake all others" I don't remember the priest saying "except with your wife's and another married couples consent". Maybe he just forgot or I wasn't listening!
Some again take the easy way out and simply don't get married and have their consience salved by the thought that they are, legally at least, single.
If you are married you are all "cheating" on your vows whether your partners agree or not,the option simply was not there! It is a moral dilemma that I have had to wrestle with, And in time may decide to give in and forget about swinging,and go back to gluing Airfix kits together.
Hell, I sound like a bible basher don't I?? Pass the Vodka quick
Sex God
Quote by alan1954
If you are married you are all "cheating" on your vows whether your partners agree or not, the option simply was not there!
Vix & I are planning to get married in the not-too-distant future and will most certainly be writing our own vows. Thanks for the post, as it provides us with some good suggestions for consideration in our wording!
~Reese!
Quote by Silk and Big G
I think one reason to this could be, (and this is my personal opinion) if I were in that situation where a married man approached us, the last thing I would want is to be on the angry end of a phone call when the wife of the married man finds out!
Which happened for real on this site about 12 months ago. A single girl that used to use the site became friendly with what she believed was a single guy. It turned out that he was married and one day his wife found a small parcel addressed to the single girl so she opened it and found some sexy underwear which was a present. The wife then went looking for the single girl's telephone number on her husband's mobile phone and found it.
For the next several weeks the wife made the single girl's life a misery both by post and by phone and it culminated in the single girl being named as the third party on the divorce papers. She didn't even know the guy was married in the first place because he was pretending to be single.
She doesn't use the site any more.
Steve
I think my position regarding married men playing away needs a little clarification.
I wholeheartedly sympathise with the predicament the single lady found herself in, The whole point being that she found herself in that position because the guy lied to her in the first place and gave her the impression that he was a free agent.
This is something I would never condone, If you must swing alone as a married man I say be honest with the folk you are intending to meet and tell them your true status. at least they will then have that choice, knowing the circumstances, as to get involved or not.
Cheating on your wife is something for your consience within your marriage, to deceive the couple (or single) you are intending to meet as well, is thoroughly dispicable.
In my mind a married man playing away with the utmost discretion would surely be preferable to a single guy who, after a swinging meet, considers himself to be an uninvited part of the relationship.
There again, maybe I am more than a little biased.
I wholeheartedly sympathise with the predicament the single lady found herself in, The whole point being that she found herself in that position because the guy lied to her in the first place and gave her the impression that he was a free agent.
This is something I would never condone, If you must swing alone as a married man I say be honest with the folk you are intending to meet and tell them your true status. at least they will then have that choice, knowing the circumstances, as to get involved or not.
Cheating on your wife is something for your consience within your marriage, to deceive the couple (or single) you are intending to meet as well, is thoroughly dispicable.
In my mind a married man playing away with the utmost discretion would surely be preferable to a single guy who, after a swinging meet, considers himself to be an uninvited part of the relationship.
There again, maybe I am more than a little biased.
Quote by alan1954
In my mind a married man playing away with the utmost discretion would surely be preferable to a single guy who, after a swinging meet, considers himself to be an uninvited part of the relationship.
There again, maybe I am more than a little biased.
:shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock:
Errrrrrrm......since when I have I ever considered myself to be an uninvited part of a relationship??????
Steve
Orgasminator
Quote by Reese
Vix & I are planning to get married in the not-too-distant future and will most certainly be writing our own vows. Thanks for the post, as it provides us with some good suggestions for consideration in our wording!
Awwww how lovely, I hope you enjoy your wedding day as much as GT and I did ours. I didn't believe that getting married would make me feel any different about us but it truly has. Difficult to put into words as we love each other more every day and that would happen being married or not... but it does feel different... I supose it is demonstrating our feelings to the world that makes the difference. Has anyone else had a similar experience?
Sex God
i have read this thread and i think it is an interesting one... not that i agree with the married mens point of view....
can i play devils advocate for a moment and ask if it was the wife who was wanted to do this and you didn't know.... how would you feel??? would it be the same way that you see it now??
i am just interested in the answer............
sean xxxxx
can i play devils advocate for a moment and ask if it was the wife who was wanted to do this and you didn't know.... how would you feel??? would it be the same way that you see it now??
i am just interested in the answer............
sean xxxxx
Quote by fabio grooverider
i have read this thread and i think it is an interesting one... not that i agree with the married mens point of view....
can i play devils advocate for a moment and ask if it was the wife who was wanted to do this and you didn't know.... how would you feel??? would it be the same way that you see it now??
i am just interested in the answer............
sean xxxxx
Sean
I am a married female whose other half isn't interested in swinging. In fact I'm not really - I'm here very much for the social side, although I have made a very close friendship too.
This friendship does not mean I love my husband any less.
I am not going to go into the morals of any of it. We each have our own moral standards - and we should never apply those to anyone other than ourselves.
I will say that I am not the only married female in this situation on the site.
Alex x
Sex God
[quote="fabio grooverider")
can i play devils advocate for a moment and ask if it was the wife who was wanted to do this and you didn't know.... how would you feel??? would it be the same way that you see it now??
Yes for us it would be the same way as if it were a married man; we wouldn't play or show any interest if we were aware of the fact that she was cheating. We don't particularly see ourselves as standing on some high moral ground or that we are in any way superior to the people who don't agree with the way we see things. We would go some way to agreeing with the person who said that we are all cheating on the marriage vows we made...the difference with us is that each of us knows and is aware that the other is also cheating on our marriage vows. To be perfectly honest, we don't obey each other either so that's another vow flaunted
oooooo i hope they shag in hell :twisted:
can i play devils advocate for a moment and ask if it was the wife who was wanted to do this and you didn't know.... how would you feel??? would it be the same way that you see it now??
Yes for us it would be the same way as if it were a married man; we wouldn't play or show any interest if we were aware of the fact that she was cheating. We don't particularly see ourselves as standing on some high moral ground or that we are in any way superior to the people who don't agree with the way we see things. We would go some way to agreeing with the person who said that we are all cheating on the marriage vows we made...the difference with us is that each of us knows and is aware that the other is also cheating on our marriage vows. To be perfectly honest, we don't obey each other either so that's another vow flaunted
oooooo i hope they shag in hell :twisted: Sex God
sorry for the confusion... :D :D
i meant to ask the married men that if it was their wives doing this and they were the one in the dark, would they feel the same way as they do now???
that was the question i wanted answered... just to see if their convictions are as strong as ever on the subject.....
sean xxxx
:D :D i meant to ask the married men that if it was their wives doing this and they were the one in the dark, would they feel the same way as they do now???
that was the question i wanted answered... just to see if their convictions are as strong as ever on the subject.....
sean xxxx
What an interesting debate. I'm going to put my two pennies worth in and hope that it will be accepted in the spirit of tollerance as it is meant.
I perceive morality and morales as that which is placed upon each and everyone of us from outside influences, ie religion, church and family. Society in essence places a morality upon us and, throughout our lives we mould ourselves inside to the values placed by the society.
Taking a step out of the society and the values placed within the society allows us as individuals to look at what we actually know to be our own values. My personal values are therfor very much my own and are not determined by the society. This allows me the freedom to be who i want to be without the constraints of morality per se.
I personally, do not have a problem with married individuals "playing" without the consent of the partner. This is for the the individual to decide. I am also respectful of those who have made a decision that cosentual sex requires the consent of both parties if they are within a marriage or relationship. I feel that if i try to live my life through my own values, then i have no right, to place values upon other individuals.
This does not mean that I do not have sympathy for the young woman discussed by Steveg. The fault, if there is such a thing lies very firmly with the male individual who lied in the first instance. Being upfront and truthful about your circumstances allows that individaul to place there own values and to make informed choices.
Trust and tollerance, to me, are the fundamental principles in any relationship whether it be through SH or elsewhere. With these principles in place a basis for everything else is established. Friendship, social gatherings or sex, to me, need these foundations, and i have found that SH has people in abundance who live there lives with the same thoughts. For that, i am very grateful.
Lots of love, hugs and kisses
Little
XXX
I perceive morality and morales as that which is placed upon each and everyone of us from outside influences, ie religion, church and family. Society in essence places a morality upon us and, throughout our lives we mould ourselves inside to the values placed by the society.
Taking a step out of the society and the values placed within the society allows us as individuals to look at what we actually know to be our own values. My personal values are therfor very much my own and are not determined by the society. This allows me the freedom to be who i want to be without the constraints of morality per se.
I personally, do not have a problem with married individuals "playing" without the consent of the partner. This is for the the individual to decide. I am also respectful of those who have made a decision that cosentual sex requires the consent of both parties if they are within a marriage or relationship. I feel that if i try to live my life through my own values, then i have no right, to place values upon other individuals.
This does not mean that I do not have sympathy for the young woman discussed by Steveg. The fault, if there is such a thing lies very firmly with the male individual who lied in the first instance. Being upfront and truthful about your circumstances allows that individaul to place there own values and to make informed choices.
Trust and tollerance, to me, are the fundamental principles in any relationship whether it be through SH or elsewhere. With these principles in place a basis for everything else is established. Friendship, social gatherings or sex, to me, need these foundations, and i have found that SH has people in abundance who live there lives with the same thoughts. For that, i am very grateful.
Lots of love, hugs and kisses
Little
XXX
I am very pleased to see my recent comments have elicited a wide spectrum of views on the subject of married men swinging without their partners knowledge.
I will apologise to Steveg if my comments seemed to be directed at him personally, and to Sgt. Bilko for appearing a bible basher, This at no time was ever my intention.
My comments and views expressed should never be taken as such, and are posted purely with a view to joining the debate on the thread, the subject is one which, as can be seen, has as many views as contributors, And which, I for one am finding quite fasinating.
Fabio, has hit on one of those wonderful questions which strikes at the very core. How would I feel if it was my wife doing the cheating? The quite simple and easy way out would be to say "I don't know unless it happend". But that is far too easy for a debate such as this and I guess I would be forced to admit that in such a situation I would probably feel pretty pissed off.
Ok guys and gals, here we go with another sub debate on how hipocritical I am being, although I hope the debate will actually concentrate more on the hipocrisy of the species rather on me personally. I feel I will not be alone. The scenario of a husband or wife cheating on a spouse and yet expecting the spouse to be as pure as driven snow is almost as old as marriage itself.
I guess I have rattled a few cages for the moment, so will sit back and watch with interest.
I will apologise to Steveg if my comments seemed to be directed at him personally, and to Sgt. Bilko for appearing a bible basher, This at no time was ever my intention.
My comments and views expressed should never be taken as such, and are posted purely with a view to joining the debate on the thread, the subject is one which, as can be seen, has as many views as contributors, And which, I for one am finding quite fasinating.
Fabio, has hit on one of those wonderful questions which strikes at the very core. How would I feel if it was my wife doing the cheating? The quite simple and easy way out would be to say "I don't know unless it happend". But that is far too easy for a debate such as this and I guess I would be forced to admit that in such a situation I would probably feel pretty pissed off.
Ok guys and gals, here we go with another sub debate on how hipocritical I am being, although I hope the debate will actually concentrate more on the hipocrisy of the species rather on me personally. I feel I will not be alone. The scenario of a husband or wife cheating on a spouse and yet expecting the spouse to be as pure as driven snow is almost as old as marriage itself.
I guess I have rattled a few cages for the moment, so will sit back and watch with interest.
Quote by alan1954
Just to clarify something though, could Alexandra tell us if her husband knows she is swinging?
Perhaps Alan could read my post a little most closely.
But..... to clarify
I am not what most people would call a swinger.
To be honest though - my situation is no-ones business but my own and those people who I am friends with - and anyone of those will tell you that I am open and honest with them about my circumstances.
Alex x
