Peter Barnes... mostly of Manchester City, but also some spanish club, West Brom and even Man Utd.
When I was young, he was my hero... an upcoming England left winger, highly acclaimed in his day. But he never really seemed to meet his potential.
At one point.. he even had a 'Peter Barnes Football Trainer' product on the market.... a ball attached with an elastic cord to your football shorts! Oh what fun when you kicked it hard... to have the ball recoil to your groin.
I quite liked Brian Jacks too. The Judo guy who ALWAYS won 'Superstars' on the telly. Nobody knew who the hell he really was, but he won everything!
/The Kid
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TheAnalogKid
Over 90 days ago
Straight Male, 119
0 miles · Cheshire
Forum
I doubt there's anything we (society) does today that hasn't been done already by countless others in history.
I think many of us tend to assume we have 'progressed' in terms of sexual liberation... the acts we enjoy being more adventurous than those that went before us. Sometimes this is true over the short term, but if we look back in history long enough, we often seem to find folks who would make us look prudish!
Kinky is maybe a moving target. What I thought inky 20 years ago, I no longer do. Not sure that society has truly changed, or if it's me. Probably a little of both.
For me... kinky is whatever you think and feel it is. The only fun and pleasure in 'kink' is that which we believe it to be.
On a slightly different point though... I'm fascinated by how so many folks seems to have similar kinks.
For instance, a foot fetish is quite common, but a chair leg fetish isn't. Do folks 'really' have a fetish built in, or are they conditioned to find an appeal in something. Given the way so many fetishes seem popular, I'm inclined to think there's an awful lot of conditioning going on.
/The Kid
I think many of us tend to assume we have 'progressed' in terms of sexual liberation... the acts we enjoy being more adventurous than those that went before us. Sometimes this is true over the short term, but if we look back in history long enough, we often seem to find folks who would make us look prudish!
Kinky is maybe a moving target. What I thought inky 20 years ago, I no longer do. Not sure that society has truly changed, or if it's me. Probably a little of both.
For me... kinky is whatever you think and feel it is. The only fun and pleasure in 'kink' is that which we believe it to be.
On a slightly different point though... I'm fascinated by how so many folks seems to have similar kinks.
For instance, a foot fetish is quite common, but a chair leg fetish isn't. Do folks 'really' have a fetish built in, or are they conditioned to find an appeal in something. Given the way so many fetishes seem popular, I'm inclined to think there's an awful lot of conditioning going on.
/The Kid
Quote by kentswingers777
possibly because as a homosexual you are giving your partner a choice. paedophiles usually don't give their victim any choice at all! i have no sympathies what so ever with these people and will not tolerate them one bit!
there is a difference between concenting sex of whatever sexuality and abuse. there is also a difference between a couple who choose to have sex under age and an adult who rapes a child.
i could say more but it's a subject that is very emotive to me so i'm not going to.
whips
Not sure that's the point...
the point is about predisposition to something. If they are made that way. In the same way a guy might be born to find another guy attractive, can they be born to find young folks attractive.
What they DO with that 'attraction' is a massive problem... but that is an entirely different debate.
The debate is... we defend homosexuality (well most folks do nowadays), and deplore other forms of sexual behaviour.
For most of us, I think its fair to say "most gay people are born that way, even if it takes time to realise they are gay,or bi etc"... but if someone says "I can't help liking youngsters" we call them sick.
There's a fundamental problem there..... and this is in no way defending you know what.
The consent and abuse issue is absolutely right, it's awful what such people DO... but I do have some sort of sympathy for their motivation if it's ever proven to be biological.
If that was ever proved to be the case, they would still be sick individuals in my book.
Most people nowadays have no problem with gay guys at all but...the child molester will never have much sympathy from people, and why should they? Society will never accept or tolerate that kind of behaviour,and it will be a sad day if they did. In training I had on child protection, the tutor's expertise was working with Paedophiles. She reckons that they are born with those feelings, hence Paedophiles believe those feeling to be *normal*. It created quite a fascinating discussion.
My take on Paedophiles living in our communities is, better the devil you know!! I used to live above one and never ever had a problem with him living their (after all, people have to live somewhere). I taught my children well as they grew up on how to deal with him. It worked for me, might not other people....
As for homophobia....
I think sexuality is more accepted nowadays, although not by all and its those few who make life difficult for lesbian, gay and bi-sexual people. I found young people I worked with accepting of gay and bi women but men... that was a no no! Until we had a cake shop open ran by two gay men...one very camp the other you wouldn't have a clue about unless he told you. At first, they had terrible problems with young people and a few adults... eventually tho, they were and still are accepted in that particular community. It is about educating people in their ignorance and bigoted views. Tho, I have found some people just wont be moved away from those views no matter what is said to them.
Interestingly, the gay man that was quite camp acting (hate the word camp and cant think of an alternative sorry!) introduced me to his father, who told me all his four sons were gay..... so are people born gay?
Maybe, but does it actually matter???What about shipping them all out on an island somewhere, that way parents can sleep a bit easier of a night.
I dont believe for a second they are born that way, I believe they become like that through issues within their own heads. I cannot believe that a normal rational person would even think such thoughts, let alone act them out.
When I see parents that have had their children killed by these people,I feel for the parents, and feel nothing for these sick people who commit such gross acts.
Quote by kentswingers777
possibly because as a homosexual you are giving your partner a choice. paedophiles usually don't give their victim any choice at all! i have no sympathies what so ever with these people and will not tolerate them one bit!
there is a difference between concenting sex of whatever sexuality and abuse. there is also a difference between a couple who choose to have sex under age and an adult who rapes a child.
i could say more but it's a subject that is very emotive to me so i'm not going to.
whips
Not sure that's the point...
the point is about predisposition to something. If they are made that way. In the same way a guy might be born to find another guy attractive, can they be born to find young folks attractive.
What they DO with that 'attraction' is a massive problem... but that is an entirely different debate.
The debate is... we defend homosexuality (well most folks do nowadays), and deplore other forms of sexual behaviour.
For most of us, I think its fair to say "most gay people are born that way, even if it takes time to realise they are gay,or bi etc"... but if someone says "I can't help liking youngsters" we call them sick.
There's a fundamental problem there..... and this is in no way defending you know what.
The consent and abuse issue is absolutely right, it's awful what such people DO... but I do have some sort of sympathy for their motivation if it's ever proven to be biological.
If that was ever proved to be the case, they would still be sick individuals in my book.
Most people nowadays have no problem with gay guys at all but...the child molester will never have much sympathy from people, and why should they? Society will never accept or tolerate that kind of behaviour,and it will be a sad day if they did. In training I had on child protection, the tutor's expertise was working with Paedophiles. She reckons that they are born with those feelings, hence Paedophiles believe those feeling to be *normal*. It created quite a fascinating discussion.
My take on Paedophiles living in our communities is, better the devil you know!! I used to live above one and never ever had a problem with him living their (after all, people have to live somewhere). I taught my children well as they grew up on how to deal with him. It worked for me, might not other people....
As for homophobia....
I think sexuality is more accepted nowadays, although not by all and its those few who make life difficult for lesbian, gay and bi-sexual people. I found young people I worked with accepting of gay and bi women but men... that was a no no! Until we had a cake shop open ran by two gay men...one very camp the other you wouldn't have a clue about unless he told you. At first, they had terrible problems with young people and a few adults... eventually tho, they were and still are accepted in that particular community. It is about educating people in their ignorance and bigoted views. Tho, I have found some people just wont be moved away from those views no matter what is said to them.
Interestingly, the gay man that was quite camp acting (hate the word camp and cant think of an alternative sorry!) introduced me to his father, who told me all his four sons were gay..... so are people born gay?
Maybe, but does it actually matter???What about shipping them all out on an island somewhere, that way parents can sleep a bit easier of a night.
I dont believe for a second they are born that way, I believe they become like that through issues within their own heads. I cannot believe that a normal rational person would even think such thoughts, let alone act them out.
When I see parents that have had their children killed by these people,I feel for the parents, and feel nothing for these sick people who commit such gross acts.
They were somebody's child once, son or daughter... born that way, or made... what took an innocent child and turned them into what they became?
Yep, we could easily (in theory) ship them out... but prevention's always better than cure. Another will be born today, and always will be. To be honest, I'm not sure it could ever be prevented anyway (we're unlikely to figure out which set of triggers lead them down the wrong path to turn out that way).
You know more children are abused by parents and family members than any 'perverts' out there. More actually die at the hands of parents then are killed by perverts. Now THAT is worrying. (not that the other isn't!).
I'm a father of two, it's one thing to be rationale in here, quite another when your child is affected. But then that's why we can't be allowed to dish out the punishment - law of the land and all that, in theory to protect us all from ourselves!
Last night, I lay in bed looking up at the stars through the perforated array of cloud. Admiring the way the deepest ocean blue sky was married to the hills, and how the silken silvery moonlight accentuated the mountains. The way the glittering night ebbed and flowed with each retreat of those clouds....
And as I lay there admiring all these beautiful prizes, I thought to myself "where the fuck is my roof?"
/TheKid
And as I lay there admiring all these beautiful prizes, I thought to myself "where the fuck is my roof?"
/TheKid
What made me smile today?...
Receiving a quite unexpected mail on here from somebody whose profile I'd read last night and thought "humm could be a bit of an odd ball".
A lovely, erudite, and quite flattering mail.
Sometimes, the simple gestures win you over. The measure of people is often not what they say, but what they do.
Hard not to smile when folks prove that adage correct.
/TheKid
Receiving a quite unexpected mail on here from somebody whose profile I'd read last night and thought "humm could be a bit of an odd ball".
A lovely, erudite, and quite flattering mail.
Sometimes, the simple gestures win you over. The measure of people is often not what they say, but what they do.
Hard not to smile when folks prove that adage correct.
/TheKid
I think it's perfectly normal, esp for single males.
Couples are frequently pestered by a few single males, and so they are often reluctant to initiate conversation with them. (This isn't all couples, just a general comment).
Even a great profile might not be enough for them to risk contacting a single male... remember, they still don't know your general behaviour.
All in all, the best thing you can do is use the chatrooms, use the fora / cafe, don't have any 'expectations', but do have a lot of patience. Over time, folks will get to know you, get to understand your style, your sense of humour etc... some will like you, some will not (same as ever). Once their comfort levels have increased, you'll find that they do approach you :-)
Patience is probably the key thing, and the effort you put in (but no matter how much effort you put in, you can't MAKE it happen). If you're a half decent guy, and prove to be so over a period of time, there will be someone wanting you!
Best of luck, and don't worry about it, it's all perfectly normal!
/TheKid
Couples are frequently pestered by a few single males, and so they are often reluctant to initiate conversation with them. (This isn't all couples, just a general comment).
Even a great profile might not be enough for them to risk contacting a single male... remember, they still don't know your general behaviour.
All in all, the best thing you can do is use the chatrooms, use the fora / cafe, don't have any 'expectations', but do have a lot of patience. Over time, folks will get to know you, get to understand your style, your sense of humour etc... some will like you, some will not (same as ever). Once their comfort levels have increased, you'll find that they do approach you :-)
Patience is probably the key thing, and the effort you put in (but no matter how much effort you put in, you can't MAKE it happen). If you're a half decent guy, and prove to be so over a period of time, there will be someone wanting you!
Best of luck, and don't worry about it, it's all perfectly normal!
/TheKid
Quote by Whipsnspurs
possibly because as a homosexual you are giving your partner a choice. paedophiles usually don't give their victim any choice at all! i have no sympathies what so ever with these people and will not tolerate them one bit!
there is a difference between concenting sex of whatever sexuality and abuse. there is also a difference between a couple who choose to have sex under age and an adult who rapes a child.
i could say more but it's a subject that is very emotive to me so i'm not going to.
whips
Ah, but I never asked should they have our sympathies, I asked why is it that is someone believes homosexuality to be 'wrong' (let's put aside that rights and wrongs of their opinion)... they are in for a whole lot of trouble for expressing that view...
but everybody's fine with saying other sexual behaviours are wrong.
It's as if the pendulum has swung the other way, from when folks with serious prejudice issues and ignorance denounced homosexuality and it was 'ok' to say it was 'wrong'(there was a time when many believed this, and some still do).... and now, it's gone the other way, where it's damned hard for someone to believe it's wrong without fear of being called every name under the sun.
I really struggle with that, because sure I loathe folks who simply want to knock gay folks because they just want some section of society to pick on. But sometimes, there are folks who really aren't prejudice, have no personal issue with any section of society, but have some inner belief or conviction (call is what you will, that homosexuality is wrong).
There are still folks who believe anal sex is wrong, and even some who thing oral sex is questionable! (mind boggles), but I don't think they hate folks who do have anal or oral sex. So if they think homosexuality is wrong, I just wonder why so many assume they are gay haters, or worse.
My God, I feel like a liberal now!
My comrades will not be best pleased.
/TheKid
Not sure that's the point...
the point is about predisposition to something. If they are made that way. In the same way a guy might be born to find another guy attractive, can they be born to find young folks attractive.
What they DO with that 'attraction' is a massive problem... but that is an entirely different debate.
The debate is... we defend homosexuality (well most folks do nowadays), and deplore other forms of sexual behaviour.
For most of us, I think its fair to say "most gay people are born that way, even if it takes time to realise they are gay,or bi etc"... but if someone says "I can't help liking youngsters" we call them sick.
There's a fundamental problem there..... and this is in no way defending you know what.
The consent and abuse issue is absolutely right, it's awful what such people DO... but I do have some sort of sympathy for their motivation if it's ever proven to be biological.
i get your point, you mean they have no choice in their preference. just the same as you have no choice about being gay or straight. but the question you asked was should they not have our sympathies? well my answer is no. there is a difference in a lad of 17 going out with a girl of 15 who both concent to sex (or the girl may be the older one and the gap may be bigger). but again it comes down to an adult taking advantage of a child, not concentual sex.
abuse is about control to an extent, but most do what they do to get sexual gratification. is the abuser a victim too? no they are not! they are adults who know right from wrong no matter what their preference is. a is driven to do so because again they have the control but it's still about sexual gratification. i'm straight but could live without sex if i had to just as any gay person could. the abusers could too if they wanted to but they don't! there may be some with the preference who don't act on it, i don't know. but still i can not and will not find sympathy for them.
whips
Quote by Whipsnspurs
possibly because as a homosexual you are giving your partner a choice. paedophiles usually don't give their victim any choice at all! i have no sympathies what so ever with these people and will not tolerate them one bit!
there is a difference between concenting sex of whatever sexuality and abuse. there is also a difference between a couple who choose to have sex under age and an adult who rapes a child.
i could say more but it's a subject that is very emotive to me so i'm not going to.
whips
Not sure that's the point...
the point is about predisposition to something. If they are made that way. In the same way a guy might be born to find another guy attractive, can they be born to find young folks attractive.
What they DO with that 'attraction' is a massive problem... but that is an entirely different debate.
The debate is... we defend homosexuality (well most folks do nowadays), and deplore other forms of sexual behaviour.
For most of us, I think its fair to say "most gay people are born that way, even if it takes time to realise they are gay,or bi etc"... but if someone says "I can't help liking youngsters" we call them sick.
There's a fundamental problem there..... and this is in no way defending you know what.
The consent and abuse issue is absolutely right, it's awful what such people DO... but I do have some sort of sympathy for their motivation if it's ever proven to be biological.
What a lovely story!
I can't wait for next month's crimewatch when they report a strange lady on the underground making sexual remarks in public!...
"have YOU seen this lady?.... give is a call!"
I hope you can manage to keep overcoming your fear... the London Underground is a fascinating place to see all manner of folks!
Even naughty old men fondling their PDA's.... brings a whole new meaning to 'Palm'
Toodle pip!
/TheKid
I can't wait for next month's crimewatch when they report a strange lady on the underground making sexual remarks in public!...
"have YOU seen this lady?.... give is a call!"
I hope you can manage to keep overcoming your fear... the London Underground is a fascinating place to see all manner of folks!
Even naughty old men fondling their PDA's.... brings a whole new meaning to 'Palm'
Toodle pip!
/TheKid
If the rest of the world were to follow, I'd absolutely go for that.
The industrial revolution was earmarked to ease our burdens and afford us much more leisure time, sadly that message seemed to have got lost along the way. Although to be fair, we no longer send kids down mines and have them risking life and limb in factories....
But...
Once China and perhaps one day Africa ramp up to full production, I fear our working week will become worse. I truly believe the western world has had it damn good for some time, and is heading for a real shock in the not too distant future... when we simply cannot compete with China and Africa, and are forced to relax our working safeguards just to stay in business.
I hope I am wrong, I fear I am not.
Then again, after 5 days of lovemaking, we all get a weak end!
/TheKid
The industrial revolution was earmarked to ease our burdens and afford us much more leisure time, sadly that message seemed to have got lost along the way. Although to be fair, we no longer send kids down mines and have them risking life and limb in factories....
But...
Once China and perhaps one day Africa ramp up to full production, I fear our working week will become worse. I truly believe the western world has had it damn good for some time, and is heading for a real shock in the not too distant future... when we simply cannot compete with China and Africa, and are forced to relax our working safeguards just to stay in business.
I hope I am wrong, I fear I am not.
Then again, after 5 days of lovemaking, we all get a weak end!
/TheKid
Ok now I sort of already know I will regret this...
but still... (and do not assume anything about my own opinion, it's irrelevant)...
It is rather difficult for anybody today to defend (in good faith, whatever that really means) the case that homosexuality is in some way wrong.
I'm saying here that IF someone does believe it to be wrong (through a religious belief, some sense of biological malfunction, or just the most difficult of all for me to deal with 'it's just a confused person').... then they are given pretty short shrift and made to feel persecuted.
I worry about this a little, and don't feel comfortable with it.
I can't abide those that so clearly say "it's wrong", but, I equally can't abide those that refuse to accept it is a point of view, and you can still have a pint with someone holding that view.
I drink with adulterers, thieves, liars, bigots, you name it (I'm probably some of those!)... I have on occasion told them that I believe what they are doing is wrong. I still love them, they still matter to me, I don't think any less of them (I'm no angel), and yet I still have some sense of right and wrong over those issues.
If someone thinks homosexuality is wrong, they are in deep trouble... perhaps because it's clearly a biological / physiological matter more than it is a clear 'moral' matter... (or conventional wisdom would have us believe).
YET..... and here's the rub.
Few of us hold much sympathy for paedophiles. Are they too (to varying extents) victims (for want of a better term) of biology?. Could they be predisposed to find youth attractive, and by the law of the land, be horrific monsters for being with a 15 year old in one country, and perfectly fine in another?
The parallels here are not ideal and they are controversial... but currently few dare raise objections to homosexuality, and few dare defend .
I sincerely apologise to those assuming I equate the two in any other fashion than biological predisposition to sexual behaviour. I do not.
So I ask all.... why IS it so reprehensible to say No to homosexuality, but fine to say No to other sexual behaviours that society finds distasteful / harmful (which some clearly are!)?
/TheKid
but still... (and do not assume anything about my own opinion, it's irrelevant)...
It is rather difficult for anybody today to defend (in good faith, whatever that really means) the case that homosexuality is in some way wrong.
I'm saying here that IF someone does believe it to be wrong (through a religious belief, some sense of biological malfunction, or just the most difficult of all for me to deal with 'it's just a confused person').... then they are given pretty short shrift and made to feel persecuted.
I worry about this a little, and don't feel comfortable with it.
I can't abide those that so clearly say "it's wrong", but, I equally can't abide those that refuse to accept it is a point of view, and you can still have a pint with someone holding that view.
I drink with adulterers, thieves, liars, bigots, you name it (I'm probably some of those!)... I have on occasion told them that I believe what they are doing is wrong. I still love them, they still matter to me, I don't think any less of them (I'm no angel), and yet I still have some sense of right and wrong over those issues.
If someone thinks homosexuality is wrong, they are in deep trouble... perhaps because it's clearly a biological / physiological matter more than it is a clear 'moral' matter... (or conventional wisdom would have us believe).
YET..... and here's the rub.
Few of us hold much sympathy for paedophiles. Are they too (to varying extents) victims (for want of a better term) of biology?. Could they be predisposed to find youth attractive, and by the law of the land, be horrific monsters for being with a 15 year old in one country, and perfectly fine in another?
The parallels here are not ideal and they are controversial... but currently few dare raise objections to homosexuality, and few dare defend .
I sincerely apologise to those assuming I equate the two in any other fashion than biological predisposition to sexual behaviour. I do not.
So I ask all.... why IS it so reprehensible to say No to homosexuality, but fine to say No to other sexual behaviours that society finds distasteful / harmful (which some clearly are!)?
/TheKid
Is pornography dictated by implication or by inference?
That is to say... does it become pornography when made, or when seen/read/heard?
If an artist takes a picture of a tree with a young bird on the branches, and imagines it to be symbolic of a phallus taking the virginity of a young girl. Is that obscene / pornographic because of the artists intent?
Or, if he just took a picture representing nature... and the viewer interpreted that image to be sexually symbolic, is it then pornographic?
Incidentally, the law interprets pornography and obscenity by inference / interpretation and not intent. It matters not what was intended, but how it is perceived... interesting. By that reckoning, should an innocent artist ever paint a picture that happens to be considered pornographic or obscene by enough people, then he is doomed.
I believe much the same happened with slave, witches and Jean D'Arc once...
/TheKid
That is to say... does it become pornography when made, or when seen/read/heard?
If an artist takes a picture of a tree with a young bird on the branches, and imagines it to be symbolic of a phallus taking the virginity of a young girl. Is that obscene / pornographic because of the artists intent?
Or, if he just took a picture representing nature... and the viewer interpreted that image to be sexually symbolic, is it then pornographic?
Incidentally, the law interprets pornography and obscenity by inference / interpretation and not intent. It matters not what was intended, but how it is perceived... interesting. By that reckoning, should an innocent artist ever paint a picture that happens to be considered pornographic or obscene by enough people, then he is doomed.
I believe much the same happened with slave, witches and Jean D'Arc once...
/TheKid
As absurd as the Sun may be, for its blatant bias and pandering to the masses....
there is not a newspaper in this land that can lay any greater claim to impartiality or agnosticism.
All newspapers seek to portray a view, a view influenced by the mind of the author, or that of the editor under the influence of revenue generation / financial backing / political affiliation
Perhaps the reality is - they all bullshit, it's merely the manner in which they do so that sets them apart.
Is staring at a pair of breast anymore obscene than checking the corporate profits in the FT? which is truly the more honest.
Sex, greed, appetite for gossip, pleasure in other's failings... all newspapers pander to these human cravings.
And, the REAL reason chips are prohibited from being wrapped in newspaper is that folks discovered that salt and vinegar from the chips made the bullshit in newspapers more palatable.
there is not a newspaper in this land that can lay any greater claim to impartiality or agnosticism.
All newspapers seek to portray a view, a view influenced by the mind of the author, or that of the editor under the influence of revenue generation / financial backing / political affiliation
Perhaps the reality is - they all bullshit, it's merely the manner in which they do so that sets them apart.
Is staring at a pair of breast anymore obscene than checking the corporate profits in the FT? which is truly the more honest.
Sex, greed, appetite for gossip, pleasure in other's failings... all newspapers pander to these human cravings.
And, the REAL reason chips are prohibited from being wrapped in newspaper is that folks discovered that salt and vinegar from the chips made the bullshit in newspapers more palatable.
I have to confess this, and I don't think it will win me many friends...
Finding a sexual partner of any gender is always a very personal experience, so it's almost impossible to give advice that is perfect (or even close)... but...
I'd say time is a great aid. So take your time. A swinging site has pros and cons. There are lots of like minded females on sites like this, but for the large part, the motive is consenting, pleasurable, adult fun. All good so far.
But, folks can sometimes be hasty, and eager to want to show you how good a time you could have, but might not always have your interests at heart. That doesn't mean they are bad folks; just wanting to introduce you to a bifem experience in a hurry might not be right for you.
I agree with a number of folks who've said get out and meet a few people at a munch (social gathering), not one to one. Just see the wide range of folks out there, all ages, all shapes and sizes, all classes of people, and how you're certainly not alone. But temper this with the knowledge that most swingers by their very nature like to swap partners (on a grand scale, or in a very limited manner). You may or may not prefer a less complicated bifem, who just likes one on one, and with a degree of emotional engagement with you too. Those types are harder to find, since less websites exist for them, and many are in your situation, not wanting to shout about it from the hilltops!
So...take your time, and remember the nature of swingers!... bare that in mind when you meet them. But there are some fabulous swingers around, truly lovely people, if you find the lady you feel comfortable to have your first experience with, I'm sure you'll recognise her deep down.
Good luck lady!
/TheKid
Finding a sexual partner of any gender is always a very personal experience, so it's almost impossible to give advice that is perfect (or even close)... but...
I'd say time is a great aid. So take your time. A swinging site has pros and cons. There are lots of like minded females on sites like this, but for the large part, the motive is consenting, pleasurable, adult fun. All good so far.
But, folks can sometimes be hasty, and eager to want to show you how good a time you could have, but might not always have your interests at heart. That doesn't mean they are bad folks; just wanting to introduce you to a bifem experience in a hurry might not be right for you.
I agree with a number of folks who've said get out and meet a few people at a munch (social gathering), not one to one. Just see the wide range of folks out there, all ages, all shapes and sizes, all classes of people, and how you're certainly not alone. But temper this with the knowledge that most swingers by their very nature like to swap partners (on a grand scale, or in a very limited manner). You may or may not prefer a less complicated bifem, who just likes one on one, and with a degree of emotional engagement with you too. Those types are harder to find, since less websites exist for them, and many are in your situation, not wanting to shout about it from the hilltops!
So...take your time, and remember the nature of swingers!... bare that in mind when you meet them. But there are some fabulous swingers around, truly lovely people, if you find the lady you feel comfortable to have your first experience with, I'm sure you'll recognise her deep down.
Good luck lady!
/TheKid
Aye, I've been away a long time....
So many new faces I don't know. Doesn't feel quite like it used to, but I'm enjoying being back for the large part.
I love the forums, you tend to get a nicer set of folks who can be arsed to articulate their opinions. I like that, being the pretentious so and so I am!
Nice to see you too! very very long time. I peeked at some mega old postings, and saw Jags (a blast from the past) and Mark who I thought founded this website?... a few other great names too, but think they may have vanished.
Thanks for the welcome back!
So many new faces I don't know. Doesn't feel quite like it used to, but I'm enjoying being back for the large part.
I love the forums, you tend to get a nicer set of folks who can be arsed to articulate their opinions. I like that, being the pretentious so and so I am!
Nice to see you too! very very long time. I peeked at some mega old postings, and saw Jags (a blast from the past) and Mark who I thought founded this website?... a few other great names too, but think they may have vanished.
Thanks for the welcome back!
No Lost, I don't think your potential reaction is at all homophobic.
I think much depends on the interpretation of homophobia; but a fear of being gay, or of gay people doesn't equate to an uncomfortable or uncertain response to a gay gesture.
I think all it really says is, when faced with a situation you're unfamiliar with, you can't be certain of your reaction, and even if it's a negative reaction, that could just be a 'safety first' mechanism... to react negatively/defensively until mentally comfortable.
The whole situation is a combination of events and data you're processing.... for instance, the environment it happens in, your mood, the person doing it, the manner in which they do it etc. It only takes one of these things to completely change your reaction. If a woman pinches over aggressively, that might make you react negatively, or a woman doing to in the middle of Sainsbury's might flatter you but you'd think she was slighty nutty!...
so it's no different if a guy pinches your bum and you think "oooh not sure about this, it's not something that's happened before, so for the moment, I'll not take kindly to it"
NOTHING homophobic about that!
Now gimme a kiss!
/TheKid
I think much depends on the interpretation of homophobia; but a fear of being gay, or of gay people doesn't equate to an uncomfortable or uncertain response to a gay gesture.
I think all it really says is, when faced with a situation you're unfamiliar with, you can't be certain of your reaction, and even if it's a negative reaction, that could just be a 'safety first' mechanism... to react negatively/defensively until mentally comfortable.
The whole situation is a combination of events and data you're processing.... for instance, the environment it happens in, your mood, the person doing it, the manner in which they do it etc. It only takes one of these things to completely change your reaction. If a woman pinches over aggressively, that might make you react negatively, or a woman doing to in the middle of Sainsbury's might flatter you but you'd think she was slighty nutty!...
so it's no different if a guy pinches your bum and you think "oooh not sure about this, it's not something that's happened before, so for the moment, I'll not take kindly to it"
NOTHING homophobic about that!
Now gimme a kiss!
/TheKid
Great when someone realises swinging isn't necessarily a lifestyle, but an activity, and if needs be, can be dropped.... still affording you a fabulous life (sexually or otherwise).
Good luck taking your knowledge with you. Even the bad experiences can serve a purpose if you've learned something. Enjoy the peace and quiet away from the madhouse!!
All the best,
/TheKid
Good luck taking your knowledge with you. Even the bad experiences can serve a purpose if you've learned something. Enjoy the peace and quiet away from the madhouse!!
All the best,
/TheKid
I think the term 'swing' is a big clue...
anybody who is liberal and able to find their pleasure in 'swinging' (to and from) nature is a swinger.
Basically the origin comes from just that, not being steadfast with one person, but able to move freely between multiple people.
That's not to be confused with a stable relationship (your partner), it's merely in terms of temporary pleasure found in folks other than one partner.
Also, it doesn't dictate how that pleasure is found. It needn't be full sex, or even contact sex... it could just as well be exhibitionism, or voyeurism etc.
And what does it matter? With so many communities (like Dominance and submission, BDSM, swinging, exhibitionism etc) folks sometimes want to make their group unique and sometimes elite. That's when they start to make definitions of who is and who isn't in their group.. in order to say they are in, and you are out. Swinging by nature is a liberal act, so makes sense to me that swingers in their mentality should be liberal too.
If someone believes they are swingers, they are swingers. Who are we or anybody else to say they aren't?
... a swing that doesn't move very often, remains a swing.
/TheKid
anybody who is liberal and able to find their pleasure in 'swinging' (to and from) nature is a swinger.
Basically the origin comes from just that, not being steadfast with one person, but able to move freely between multiple people.
That's not to be confused with a stable relationship (your partner), it's merely in terms of temporary pleasure found in folks other than one partner.
Also, it doesn't dictate how that pleasure is found. It needn't be full sex, or even contact sex... it could just as well be exhibitionism, or voyeurism etc.
And what does it matter? With so many communities (like Dominance and submission, BDSM, swinging, exhibitionism etc) folks sometimes want to make their group unique and sometimes elite. That's when they start to make definitions of who is and who isn't in their group.. in order to say they are in, and you are out. Swinging by nature is a liberal act, so makes sense to me that swingers in their mentality should be liberal too.
If someone believes they are swingers, they are swingers. Who are we or anybody else to say they aren't?
... a swing that doesn't move very often, remains a swing.
/TheKid
Great question
I wouldn't ever want to pay for it... primarily because for it to have any worth, I'd want to feel fancied, and paying for it would certainly put into question the woman's motives!
As a guy, I'd not want a freebie from a prostitute based partly on prejudice and partly fear.
I'd suspect the number of partners she'd had would be very high, and I'd be extremely concerened about potential diseases (even thous some might argue she's a safer bet).
I think one real danger in terms of raising questions about a prostitute and a swinging are that people can often equate the two as being about money (prostitue) or desire (swinger). The danger is, people think swinging is about high numbers of partners too. For some this IS the case, but for many it's not, they just enjoy swinging with a select few.
For this reason, I (as a man) couldn't accept a freebie from a prostitute (it's the numbers and safety issue).
btw, as a slight aside, does anybody else think along these lines (like I do)....
if a person has a high number of partners... it's not just a matter of them having slept with say 100 instead of 10, but also the people they slept with also probably sleep around a lot more too... so their 100 partners probably have had 100 too... thus increasing the potential risks of STD not by a factor of 10, but 10*10 ?
/Kid
I wouldn't ever want to pay for it... primarily because for it to have any worth, I'd want to feel fancied, and paying for it would certainly put into question the woman's motives!
As a guy, I'd not want a freebie from a prostitute based partly on prejudice and partly fear.
I'd suspect the number of partners she'd had would be very high, and I'd be extremely concerened about potential diseases (even thous some might argue she's a safer bet).
I think one real danger in terms of raising questions about a prostitute and a swinging are that people can often equate the two as being about money (prostitue) or desire (swinger). The danger is, people think swinging is about high numbers of partners too. For some this IS the case, but for many it's not, they just enjoy swinging with a select few.
For this reason, I (as a man) couldn't accept a freebie from a prostitute (it's the numbers and safety issue).
btw, as a slight aside, does anybody else think along these lines (like I do)....
if a person has a high number of partners... it's not just a matter of them having slept with say 100 instead of 10, but also the people they slept with also probably sleep around a lot more too... so their 100 partners probably have had 100 too... thus increasing the potential risks of STD not by a factor of 10, but 10*10 ?
/Kid
I think you missed my point...
It's not that people should seek out newbies day and night and welcome them... it's just that when a newbie does make an effort, ot should be embraced. There's a bit difference.
If a new person comes in a pub and does say hi, then sure, you can't expect the whole pub to stop and say hi back... but equally, you've got one hell of shitty pub if nobody says hi back.
So yeah, you can say "not my job" or "can't be arsed", or "somebody else will do it". And often it will suffice, cos somebody else did it. But eventually, it will make for a lousy atmosphere with newcomers feeling less and less welcome in the end.
Here's the typical evolution of a site....
1) The site opens
2) The owner works off his nut and recruits a few good friends who help get the site roling
3) A few people join and leave cos it's new and small
4) A few people join and stay cos they like the idea of the site, and post, and spread the word etc...
5) The site gets a bit bigger, and a few more folk join up, they don't contribute quite as much - cos they think that the site owes them a service, not the other way round.
6) The site increases futher... the owner needs more help still, and has to recruit mods to help out, some of whom he knows, some he take s good guess at suitability
7) SOme of the mods keep s level head, some don't
8) Some of the regulars wonder why they aren't mods... and some of the mods don't like some of the regulars...
9) things settle down, with a contunuous undercurrent of criticism about certain members, but both appear to cope with each other
10) New people start coming in, and a few of the regulars and a few of the mods get some silly insecurities, and start being excessively harsh with newcomers and ban them, or take the piss out of them etc
11) Other newcomers notice it, and start to feel it's a bit 'unwelcoming' so stop coming
12) There's a power struggle brewing up... usually between 2 or 3 by now established cliques in the site...
13) There's a stupid argument that gets out of hand... resulting in about half of the regulars sulking and going off to another site, whilst the remaining half feel it's a fresh start with the 'decent' ones left (themselves)
Go back to step one
this really does happen time and time again, and most of it because people on the inside can't see from the outside, and refuse to acknowledge the outsiders view.
What does it say when people claim "if you want to fit in, then you can do so by doing all the work yourself, don't expect any favours from us?" Not that good reading is it?
/Kid
It's not that people should seek out newbies day and night and welcome them... it's just that when a newbie does make an effort, ot should be embraced. There's a bit difference.
If a new person comes in a pub and does say hi, then sure, you can't expect the whole pub to stop and say hi back... but equally, you've got one hell of shitty pub if nobody says hi back.
So yeah, you can say "not my job" or "can't be arsed", or "somebody else will do it". And often it will suffice, cos somebody else did it. But eventually, it will make for a lousy atmosphere with newcomers feeling less and less welcome in the end.
Here's the typical evolution of a site....
1) The site opens
2) The owner works off his nut and recruits a few good friends who help get the site roling
3) A few people join and leave cos it's new and small
4) A few people join and stay cos they like the idea of the site, and post, and spread the word etc...
5) The site gets a bit bigger, and a few more folk join up, they don't contribute quite as much - cos they think that the site owes them a service, not the other way round.
6) The site increases futher... the owner needs more help still, and has to recruit mods to help out, some of whom he knows, some he take s good guess at suitability
7) SOme of the mods keep s level head, some don't
8) Some of the regulars wonder why they aren't mods... and some of the mods don't like some of the regulars...
9) things settle down, with a contunuous undercurrent of criticism about certain members, but both appear to cope with each other
10) New people start coming in, and a few of the regulars and a few of the mods get some silly insecurities, and start being excessively harsh with newcomers and ban them, or take the piss out of them etc
11) Other newcomers notice it, and start to feel it's a bit 'unwelcoming' so stop coming
12) There's a power struggle brewing up... usually between 2 or 3 by now established cliques in the site...
13) There's a stupid argument that gets out of hand... resulting in about half of the regulars sulking and going off to another site, whilst the remaining half feel it's a fresh start with the 'decent' ones left (themselves)
Go back to step one
this really does happen time and time again, and most of it because people on the inside can't see from the outside, and refuse to acknowledge the outsiders view.
What does it say when people claim "if you want to fit in, then you can do so by doing all the work yourself, don't expect any favours from us?" Not that good reading is it?
/Kid
Sorry, but I can't agree...
Like I said cliques do exist, that's life...
The point is, people forget that they slowly develop into them, and forget that there are others on the outside. They typically refuse to believe that they exist and resolutely claim that it's those on the outside with problems. It's not. It's both sides of the fence that aren't prepared to grasp the situation on the other side.
The newcomers can do things to help themselves, and unless they do, can have no real argument. But, the longer established people can do help them too.
I stated initially, that the people in here (the forum) tend to be the better people, since they are making an effort to contribute, but I can assure you, a high percentage of people in the chat room never post a damn thing, nor (imo) contribute very much at all to the overall success of the site. I know it's perhaps not a popular opinion, but I stand by my statement that some people bask in reflected glory of mod status, or chat personality etc.
Largely this is why I feel the forums are a much better place to enjoy the site. This site isn't immune to all the usual crap that others sites suffer from too. Nobody is immune from cliques, embittered personalities and imbicilic fly-by-nights looking for a shag at a moment's notice with a fake ad etc. I just believe it's important to recognise it exists, that's the first step to managing it!
/Kid
Like I said cliques do exist, that's life...
The point is, people forget that they slowly develop into them, and forget that there are others on the outside. They typically refuse to believe that they exist and resolutely claim that it's those on the outside with problems. It's not. It's both sides of the fence that aren't prepared to grasp the situation on the other side.
The newcomers can do things to help themselves, and unless they do, can have no real argument. But, the longer established people can do help them too.
I stated initially, that the people in here (the forum) tend to be the better people, since they are making an effort to contribute, but I can assure you, a high percentage of people in the chat room never post a damn thing, nor (imo) contribute very much at all to the overall success of the site. I know it's perhaps not a popular opinion, but I stand by my statement that some people bask in reflected glory of mod status, or chat personality etc.
Largely this is why I feel the forums are a much better place to enjoy the site. This site isn't immune to all the usual crap that others sites suffer from too. Nobody is immune from cliques, embittered personalities and imbicilic fly-by-nights looking for a shag at a moment's notice with a fake ad etc. I just believe it's important to recognise it exists, that's the first step to managing it!
/Kid
That was why I said 'just get to know each other better' is there's no physical ability under the circumstances (due to illness).
But surely, it's a decent thing to offer to come, and let the other person say "no, stay home and get better", or even "well, no problem about playing, come over anyway, and we'll just have a drink" etc?
Must be me, but I'd be mortified at letting someone down.
/Kid
But surely, it's a decent thing to offer to come, and let the other person say "no, stay home and get better", or even "well, no problem about playing, come over anyway, and we'll just have a drink" etc?
Must be me, but I'd be mortified at letting someone down.
/Kid
I did say 'to remember what it was like' and 'maybe make more of an effort'
I can see your point about the term responsibility, I think it's a fine line between 'obligation' and 'decency'.
Surely in order for a community to work, be it real life or online, the members DO have a responsibility to keep it working, and this is one of many ways in which to do so?
That doesn't mean every single member should do every single thing possible, it's a general comment that such places and people do tend to foget what it's like to be new. They make a lot of effort to become established, fair enough, but once they are, feel it's fine to sit back and reap the rewards, without putting something back into the place.
I can't condone this particular guy - there's no excuse for posting fake pics etc. But still, I can understand some of his sentiments about newbies.
/Kid
I can see your point about the term responsibility, I think it's a fine line between 'obligation' and 'decency'.
Surely in order for a community to work, be it real life or online, the members DO have a responsibility to keep it working, and this is one of many ways in which to do so?
That doesn't mean every single member should do every single thing possible, it's a general comment that such places and people do tend to foget what it's like to be new. They make a lot of effort to become established, fair enough, but once they are, feel it's fine to sit back and reap the rewards, without putting something back into the place.
I can't condone this particular guy - there's no excuse for posting fake pics etc. But still, I can understand some of his sentiments about newbies.
/Kid
I think it's par for the course these days (in fact all days).
Don't get too down about it, just make tonight a special night in some other way.
I agree with the person earlier who commented on them not feeling great but going anyway. IMO, when you arrange to meet someone, there's a fair level of decency involved and other people's expectations and plans are involved too. Better to go along and say "I don't feel great, but lets see if we can make things better, or just get to know each other better anyway"
Surely anybody in swinging must be mindful of the number of timewasters etc, and would go out of their way to avoid ever being perceived as that. (I'm not implying this is the case, just making a general comment).
Anyway... better luck next time, and have one hell of a good night tonight regardless! You can improvise... women do it soooo well ;-)
/Kid
Don't get too down about it, just make tonight a special night in some other way.
I agree with the person earlier who commented on them not feeling great but going anyway. IMO, when you arrange to meet someone, there's a fair level of decency involved and other people's expectations and plans are involved too. Better to go along and say "I don't feel great, but lets see if we can make things better, or just get to know each other better anyway"
Surely anybody in swinging must be mindful of the number of timewasters etc, and would go out of their way to avoid ever being perceived as that. (I'm not implying this is the case, just making a general comment).
Anyway... better luck next time, and have one hell of a good night tonight regardless! You can improvise... women do it soooo well ;-)
/Kid
Quote by Vix
I resign...
I have to confess I'm a one woman man
Please deduct 6 points from my suitability index
That's fine. How many men, though? I could squeeze you in at 1500hrs, with another chap sharing the appointment.
£10 fine for missing appointments without 24 hrs notice.
ERROR: Message did not reach intended recipient
